WHY EUROPEANS ARE DEMS!

[Gustaf]

HEY! I just realized one of the most important reasons for foreigners being pro-Dem. We're most interested in foreign policy, since we don't live in the US, don't have to pay your taxes, etc. And on foreign policy, well, Democrats tend to like Europe, Republicans tend to despise all other countries in the world.

I made this a thread of it's own, b/c the other was getting buried, and I think everyone should see it, since it seems to have evoced a lot of feelings...

[Dave from Michigan]

Hey I'm a  republican and I don't hate Europe or the rest of the world with the execption of France

[Dave from Michigan]

Just kidding I don't hate France

[Gustaf]

Just kidding I don't hate France

I don't like France, few people do, so it's OK...

Nice to hear, there are alwaus exceptions to prove the rule, I guess...

[Gustaf]

If you say so...I must say that after the discussion I had on this thread it seemed true enough. I actually thought it was a stereotype uptil then. But so far MarkDel and 9Iron768 has turned out differently, so perhaps I'm wrong. I would hope so. But I think a lot of Republicans do fot into that stereotype, I'm afraid. Which is very sad, imo.

[Gustaf]

Hehe...I'm afraid you proved the wrong point, these 2 were infact the NON-Europe haters that I have so far encountered. (Though I am hoping for you as well, since you're debating this).

[Dave from Michigan]

There's a difference between hating and disagreeing with Europe

[Gustaf]

See? Even those who are pro-Europe you percieve as anti-Europe! Now what does that tell you??

[YRABNNRM]

Although I do disagree with Europe and other countries(And my own state ) I in no way hate them.

[Gustaf]

I just want to point out that I never said hate, i used the word despise...

There's a difference between hating and disagreeing with, of course, but a lot of people seem not to take that distinction too seriously. Dare I say "Freedom Fries"?

[Gustaf]

I knew you would reveal your true nature eventually!

[minionofmidas]

I just want to point out that I never said hate, i used the word despise...

There's a difference between hating and disagreeing with, of course, but a lot of people seem not to take that distinction too seriously. Dare I say "Freedom Fries"?

Now that stupid Freedom Fries thing got widely reported in Europe at the time, and I wonder how many of you Americans agreed with it back then and how many of you even heard of it. I don't know if this got reported this widely in America...

[opebo]

HEY! I just realized one of the most important reasons for foreigners being pro-Dem. We're most interested in foreign policy, since we don't live in the US, don't have to pay your taxes, etc. And on foreign policy, well, Democrats tend to like Europe, Republicans tend to despise all other countries in the world.

I made this a thread of it's own, b/c the other was getting buried, and I think everyone should see it, since it seems to have evoced a lot of feelings...

I don't 'despise' other countries.  I live abroad for gosh sakes - in Thailand - at least half the year.  I always say I would hate to be *from* anywhere other than the US, but I have to admit I  often prefer living elsewhere.  Europe is a great place to visit or live - if you can afford it.  What a terribly expensive place (I lived in Geneva for 6 mo. once).  The only countries I have a problem with are generally the more extreme Muslim ones, due to the unpleasantness of visiting an oppressed place.  A lot of what is fun in life is simply not allowed in much of the Middle East, and then there's the higher likelihood of being a target.  However having a bit of a phobia for certain countries isn't the same as despising them.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

I didn't support calling French Fries "Freedom Fries"... as changing "French" to "Freedom" would imply that France has something to do with freedom.  Instead, I would call them "Fried potatoes that have distanced themselves from the dictatorship-sympathizing French bastards"... but perhaps that is too long of an order for McDonalds

I just want to point out that I never said hate, i used the word despise...

There's a difference between hating and disagreeing with, of course, but a lot of people seem not to take that distinction too seriously. Dare I say "Freedom Fries"?

Now that stupid Freedom Fries thing got widely reported in Europe at the time, and I wonder how many of you Americans agreed with it back then and how many of you even heard of it. I don't know if this got reported this widely in America...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why not call them "Chips" like we do?
Or Belgian Fries? They were invented in Belgium after all...

[Gustaf]

Are you caving in to JR's quoting policy? Are we losing you to the dark side?

Thanks for supporting me, and if you wanna live ina world with "Fried potatoes that have distanced themselves from the dictatorship-sympathizing French bastards", be my guest...

I didn't support calling French Fries "Freedom Fries"... as changing "French" to "Freedom" would imply that France has something to do with freedom.  Instead, I would call them "Fried potatoes that have distanced themselves from the dictatorship-sympathizing French bastards"... but perhaps that is too long of an order for McDonalds

I just want to point out that I never said hate, i used the word despise...

There's a difference between hating and disagreeing with, of course, but a lot of people seem not to take that distinction too seriously. Dare I say "Freedom Fries"?

Now that stupid Freedom Fries thing got widely reported in Europe at the time, and I wonder how many of you Americans agreed with it back then and how many of you even heard of it. I don't know if this got reported this widely in America...

[Huckleberry Finn]

I can agree Gustaf's view in current situation, but not in general. In Cold War decades there were generally good  cooperation and spirit between European politician (both leftists and conservatives) and Republican government's. Especially Bush elder had great relationship with Europe.

I think that most Europeans who have moderate way to think. (conservatives, social democrats, liberals) admit that USA foreign policy has been mostly positive effect for World and especially for Europe. (WWI, WWII, Cold war, Marshall’s aid, Korea, Balkan, Afghanistan etc.)

In Europe there are always been and always will be people in far left and in far right who hate America. I have argued over them millions of times and spend hours and hours to speaking for your foreign policy and positive historical role of USA.

And that is one reason why I got mad after Markdel's question why we Europeans are here with "anti-USA" views. I could be very critical about some Bush's politics (like war crime court and Iraq) but that doesn't make me Anti-American.  

[Gustaf]

Exactly. I didn't mean to talk about the Cold War, I was talking of the present situtation. I too have spent a lot of time supporting the US in debates. I think many who are pro-America like me are worried about the relationship between the US and, well, the rest of the world, basically.

[Huckleberry Finn]

Btw. I have many friends (here in Finland) who support Bush's Iraq-policy. One of them threatened to come to this forum and give me a lesson!!!  

[Gustaf]

Btw. I have many friends (here in Finland) who support Bush's Iraq-policy. One of them threatened to come to this forum and give me a lesson!!!  

Well, it's always nice to have more Scandinavians around!

[Huckleberry Finn]

Well. We'll see is he really coming.

[Michael Z]

I think Gustaf has a point, though it's not quite as simple as he put it. I don't think Republicans hate Europe, neither do I think they're hardcore nationalists like the media over here makes them out to be. It's a caricature, as Mr. Fresh pointed out. There is an extremist element to the GOP, but it's so small it's insignificant. The vast majority of Republicans are moderates like MarkDel or Supersoulty.

Still, Republican administrations do tend to be more bellicose and unilateralist than Democratic ones (please bear in mind that I'm speaking relatively), which consequently means that a Democratic administration acts more in Europe's direct interest (and also appeals to Europe's post-WW2 pacifism). And then there's the question of PR. Take Clinton. He knew how to sell himself to Europeans. He'd lived here so he knew what we like most about Americans; thus he portrayed himself as a guy who is cool, suave, straight-talking, rock'n'roll. And people here loved him for it. Bush of course is the polar opposite to Clinton in that respect, but that's really another thread entirely.

Huck Finn has a point about the Cold War, even though Thatcher was the only European leader who really saw eye to eye with Reagan. Mitterand and Kohl never quite warmed to him; ditto Brandt and Heath compared to Nixon. In fact, their relationship (or rather lack of it) could easily have resulted in a colder diplomatic climate similar to the one we are seeing now between Chirac/Schroeder and Bush, had it not been for the common bond of Nato or rather the threat represented by Soviet Russia.

[TheWildCard]

Uhhh hate to tell you this but your very very wrong as someone who has a very big european background I am offended by you saying Republicans dispise Europe. I disagreed with France, Germany and Russia does that make me dispise them? No. Also I do know of quite a few europeans that pretty much really dislike any American President(including Bill Clinton).

So Gustaf I'm sorry but theres no way you can convince me that Republicans dispise europe.

[Gustaf]

Uhhh hate to tell you this but your very very wrong as someone who has a very big european background I am offended by you saying Republicans dispise Europe. I disagreed with France, Germany and Russia does that make me dispise them? No. Also I do know of quite a few europeans that pretty much really dislike any American President(including Bill Clinton).

So Gustaf I'm sorry but theres no way you can convince me that Republicans dispise europe.

Hmmm...it seems like my post evoced much stronger reactions than I thought it would. I am happy to see that I might have been wrong, previous discussions on Europe on this forum gave me that impression. I would like to point out that I never used the word hate though, and I of course did  not mean avery Republican. It seems like it might even not be a majority, in which case I am happy!

It's still the way mane Europeans percieve it to be, though.

[afleitch]

I certainly don't think Republican's hate Europe, if they had, would Reagan have even bothered about it in his foreign policy? Being a Centre Left European, I give credit where credit is due. I do not like President Bush, but I did like his father and President Reagan, just as I admire Margaret Thatcher here in the UK. I would not dare say (as some fools have recently) that 'I Hate America' simply because Bush is prez. I would say that I love America because they have a system that allows Bush to be kicked out! I agree there can be some confusion. Tony Blair for instance is championed by the Neo-Cons, yet his actual policy positions in general would make Howard Dean seem cuddly to the Republicans, but to say they have a general disregard for Europe is naive.