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| | |-+  Louisiana Supreme Court upholds death penalty for rape of an 8-year-old girl
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Author Topic: Louisiana Supreme Court upholds death penalty for rape of an 8-year-old girl  (Read 12121 times)
A18
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« on: May 23, 2007, 02:44:31 pm »
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Or did, yesterday, in State v. Kennedy. On the issue of Corker v. Georgia: "while Coker clearly bars the use of the death penalty as punishment for the rape of an adult woman, it left open the question of which, if any, non-homicide crimes can be constitutionally punished by death."

Discuss.

I expect the Supreme Court to grant review.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 02:57:04 pm by A18 »Logged
Sam Spade
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2007, 05:15:04 pm »
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I agree and expect reversal by a 5-4 margin with Kennedy holding the deciding vote.

He's been leaning slightly more to the left on death penalty issues for the last few years.
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2007, 10:26:55 pm »
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It should be upheld; I for one, think that the death penalty should be mandatory for anyone committing a felony while serving a life-sentence. (yes, it's possible)
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2007, 04:43:41 am »
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It should be upheld; I for one, think that the death penalty should be mandatory for anyone committing a felony while serving a life-sentence. (yes, it's possible)

Cocaine posession is a felony in some states.  Would you kill prisoners on drugs?
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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2007, 02:10:03 am »
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I was thinking more along the lines of Assaulting another inmate, assaulting a Prison Guard, attempted escape, selling drugs; but yes, I would include possession of illegal substances, if that is indeed a felony. But, as I said, only for anyone already serving a life sentence. It would certainly help with overcrowded prisons.
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2007, 02:56:50 am »
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I always knew Teddy would get his come-upence
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HardRCafé
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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2007, 03:01:30 am »
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Louisiana will be a good state to live in once Blanco crawls back in her hole.
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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2007, 03:25:15 am »
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But, as I said, only for anyone already serving a life sentence. It would certainly help with overcrowded prisons.

I think not having silly laws on the books will help more than executing citizens in cutting down on overcrowded prisons.

Louisiana will be a good state to live in once Blanco crawls back in her hole.

Yes, now that those annoying black people are gone.  Republican pride!
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2007, 07:21:17 am »
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I was thinking more along the lines of Assaulting another inmate, assaulting a Prison Guard, attempted escape, selling drugs; but yes, I would include possession of illegal substances, if that is indeed a felony. But, as I said, only for anyone already serving a life sentence. It would certainly help with overcrowded prisons.
Attempted escape is not even illegal in sane countries.
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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2007, 12:08:58 pm »
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I think not having silly laws on the books will help... in cutting down on overcrowded prisons.

I agree, however, we may disagree on what is a "silly law"
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« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2007, 07:27:46 pm »
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Yes, now that those annoying black people are gone.  Republican pride!

It's sad you're so insecure in your ideology, you back it up with baseless allegations of racism instead of actual argumentation to support it.
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2007, 05:05:22 am »
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Attempted escape is not even illegal in sane countries.

Really?  What's the logic behind that?
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2007, 05:14:53 am »
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Attempted escape is not even illegal in sane countries.

Really?  What's the logic behind that?
The logic is that a prisoner has every right to do that.

Of course, he'll lose all chance of an early release. And of course, it's illegal to help spring others from jail, which in practice means it's also illegal to attempt escape in groups.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2007, 11:06:05 pm »
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Attempted escape is not even illegal in sane countries.

Really?  What's the logic behind that?
The logic is that a prisoner has every right to do that.

Of course, he'll lose all chance of an early release. And of course, it's illegal to help spring others from jail, which in practice means it's also illegal to attempt escape in groups.


Punishments for attempted crimes find their genesis in early English and American common law and exist in no other legal systems.

Early English and American common law regarded these crimes as misdemeanors, only later American criminal statutes (post-1900) regarded these crimes as felonies.  That is how it stands nowadays - England still regards attempted crimes as misdemeanors.
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« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2007, 04:52:42 am »
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Attempted escape is not even illegal in sane countries.

Really?  What's the logic behind that?
The logic is that a prisoner has every right to do that.

Of course, he'll lose all chance of an early release. And of course, it's illegal to help spring others from jail, which in practice means it's also illegal to attempt escape in groups.


Punishments for attempted crimes find their genesis in early English and American common law and exist in no other legal systems.

Early English and American common law regarded these crimes as misdemeanors, only later American criminal statutes (post-1900) regarded these crimes as felonies.  That is how it stands nowadays - England still regards attempted crimes as misdemeanors.
Same goes if you successfully escape (and get caught again years later), though.
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2007, 08:34:49 am »
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This will be interestsing once it reaches the Court

There is no way the Court doesn't take this case - it has been obsessed with death penalty cases in recent years - it will take the chance to explore another alcove of it.

I would have to agree with Mr Spade that the case will hinge on Justice Kennedy. Chief Justice Roberts has shown little sympathy to the liberal bloc on this issue, and I do not see Justice Alito, a former prosecutor, parting ways with the conservative bloc.

Justice Kennedy was in the majority of Roper, Atkins and House - all of these ended up favouring the liberal bloc - all recent decisions in capital punishment case law. However, do not bet against Justice Kennedy conscience deciding that the horrific nature of a crime against a child can override his previous drift to the left. He is a sentimentalist after all.
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« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2007, 12:24:46 pm »
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The fact that the death penalty is disproportionate to the crime of rape was supposedly established (in Coker) by the fact that only one state authorized capital punishment for rapists. I don't know what the situation is now, but when Coker was decided, only three states authorized capital punishment for child rapists. If forty-nine states represent a "national consensus" that the death penalty is disproportionate to rape of an adult, then surely forty-seven states can be said to represent a "national consensus" that the death penalty is disproportionate to rape of a child. Between forty-nine and forty-seven, I see no meaningful difference.

Needless to say, this notion of counting up states while interpreting the Eighth Amendment is unsound--but the Supreme Court has adopted it nevertheless, so one is forced to conclude that the Louisiana Supreme Court probably erred.
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frenger
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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2007, 03:58:23 pm »
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Attempted escape is not even illegal in sane countries.

Really?  What's the logic behind that?
The logic is that a prisoner has every right to do that.

Of course, he'll lose all chance of an early release. And of course, it's illegal to help spring others from jail, which in practice means it's also illegal to attempt escape in groups.


Punishments for attempted crimes find their genesis in early English and American common law and exist in no other legal systems.

Early English and American common law regarded these crimes as misdemeanors, only later American criminal statutes (post-1900) regarded these crimes as felonies.  That is how it stands nowadays - England still regards attempted crimes as misdemeanors.
Not true. Attempted murder is a crime under Portuguese (civil) law.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2007, 08:33:56 pm »
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Attempted escape is not even illegal in sane countries.

Really?  What's the logic behind that?
The logic is that a prisoner has every right to do that.

Of course, he'll lose all chance of an early release. And of course, it's illegal to help spring others from jail, which in practice means it's also illegal to attempt escape in groups.


Punishments for attempted crimes find their genesis in early English and American common law and exist in no other legal systems.

Early English and American common law regarded these crimes as misdemeanors, only later American criminal statutes (post-1900) regarded these crimes as felonies.  That is how it stands nowadays - England still regards attempted crimes as misdemeanors.
Not true. Attempted murder is a crime under Portuguese (civil) law.

Interesting, I didn't know that (though I don't swear to be an expert in Portuguese law).  Smiley
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« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2007, 09:00:43 pm »
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So in these civil law countries (besides Portugal), you  could shoot at someone and not be tried for anything if you miss? (no attempted murder)

This is assuming of course that it's legal to own the gun in that country of course.
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« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2007, 10:13:38 pm »
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LET 'EM FRY!
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2007, 04:49:52 am »
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So in these civil law countries (besides Portugal), you  could shoot at someone and not be tried for anything if you miss? (no attempted murder)
No.
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A18
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« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2008, 01:15:38 am »
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Cert. granted; see here. "The brief of petitioner is to be filed on or before Thursday, February 14, 2008. The brief of respondent is to be filed on or before Wednesday, March 12, 2008."

My prediction is that we'll be looking at a 6-3 or 7-2 reversal.
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A18
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« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2008, 09:26:41 am »
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http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-343.pdf

Reversed, 5-4. The court's holding is categorical: "The Eighth Amendment bars Louisiana from imposing the death penalty for the rape of a child where the crime did not result, and was not intended to result, in the victim's death."
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2008, 09:39:38 am »
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Kennedy's logic on this one is particularly amusing, by just skimming through the opinion.
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