Representation without taxation

[CARLHAYDEN]

One of the concepts leading to the Revolutionary War was that Americans were being taxed without having representation in the House of Commons.

The slogan then was, "No taxation without representation."

Today, illegal aliens are being represented in the Senate while being promised that they won't have to pay back taxes.

I guess that makes it representation without taxation.

Hmm.

[Verily]

One of the concepts leading to the Revolutionary War was that Americans were being taxed without having representation in the House of Commons.

The slogan then was, "No taxation without representation."

Today, illegal aliens are being represented in the Senate while being promised that they won't have to pay back taxes.

I guess that makes it representation without taxation.

Hmm.

Really, I don't recall anyone ever campaigning for the illegal alien vote... seeing that they can't vote.

[CARLHAYDEN]

One of the concepts leading to the Revolutionary War was that Americans were being taxed without having representation in the House of Commons.

The slogan then was, "No taxation without representation."

Today, illegal aliens are being represented in the Senate while being promised that they won't have to pay back taxes.

I guess that makes it representation without taxation.

Hmm.

Really, I don't recall anyone ever campaigning for the illegal alien vote... seeing that they can't vote.

Sorry, but you don't need to vote to be represented.

Kennedy, Kyl and McVain believe that are such wonderful people that they should be absolved of paying back taxes (something they don't believe American citizens should be absolved of) and that out of state tuition fees should be waived for them.

[Verily]

One of the concepts leading to the Revolutionary War was that Americans were being taxed without having representation in the House of Commons.

The slogan then was, "No taxation without representation."

Today, illegal aliens are being represented in the Senate while being promised that they won't have to pay back taxes.

I guess that makes it representation without taxation.

Hmm.

Really, I don't recall anyone ever campaigning for the illegal alien vote... seeing that they can't vote.

Sorry, but you don't need to vote to be represented.

Kennedy, Kyl and McVain believe that are such wonderful people that they should be absolved of paying back taxes (something they don't believe American citizens should be absolved of) and that out of state tuition fees should be waived for them.

Perhaps they understand that such things would benefit the legal residents (who they do represent) as much or more so than the illegal ones. What's the point in collecting back taxes when they weren't using the tax-paid services anyway?

[CARLHAYDEN]

One of the concepts leading to the Revolutionary War was that Americans were being taxed without having representation in the House of Commons.

The slogan then was, "No taxation without representation."

Today, illegal aliens are being represented in the Senate while being promised that they won't have to pay back taxes.

I guess that makes it representation without taxation.

Hmm.

Really, I don't recall anyone ever campaigning for the illegal alien vote... seeing that they can't vote.

Sorry, but you don't need to vote to be represented.

Kennedy, Kyl and McVain believe that are such wonderful people that they should be absolved of paying back taxes (something they don't believe American citizens should be absolved of) and that out of state tuition fees should be waived for them.

Perhaps they understand that such things would benefit the legal residents (who they do represent) as much or more so than the illegal ones. What's the point in collecting back taxes when they weren't using the tax-paid services anyway?

In 2006 it is estimated that Arizonan taxpayers were burdened to the extent of about $1.3 billion because of illegal aliens residing in the state. That estimate is based only on expenditures for education, emergency medical care and incarceration.

[Dr. Cynic]

I for one, am so glad that I live in a city and state where illegal immigration is far from the most pressing concern.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Deport them all back - I don't care if they're women and children going back to poverty!  They can do it the legal way like everyone else - THEY'RE NOT SPECIAL!

[Verily]

One of the concepts leading to the Revolutionary War was that Americans were being taxed without having representation in the House of Commons.

The slogan then was, "No taxation without representation."

Today, illegal aliens are being represented in the Senate while being promised that they won't have to pay back taxes.

I guess that makes it representation without taxation.

Hmm.

Really, I don't recall anyone ever campaigning for the illegal alien vote... seeing that they can't vote.

Sorry, but you don't need to vote to be represented.

Kennedy, Kyl and McVain believe that are such wonderful people that they should be absolved of paying back taxes (something they don't believe American citizens should be absolved of) and that out of state tuition fees should be waived for them.

Perhaps they understand that such things would benefit the legal residents (who they do represent) as much or more so than the illegal ones. What's the point in collecting back taxes when they weren't using the tax-paid services anyway?

In 2006 it is estimated that Arizonan taxpayers were burdened to the extent of about $1.3 billion because of illegal aliens residing in the state. That estimate is based only on expenditures for education, emergency medical care and incarceration.

Estimated... by whom? The CARLHAYDEN anti-illegal immigration brigade?

In any case, education costs come from property taxes, which can't be collected retroactively since illegal immigrants don't own land (or else taxes were already included in rents). I don't see any way our current health care system could be paying for illegal immigrants as it doesn't even pay for legal residents, so that part is obviously irrelevant. That leaves incarceration, but, while incarcerated, they wouldn't be making money and so wouldn't have any income to pay income back taxes on.

[MaC]

We need to start a Tuscon Tequilla Party!

[Ebowed]

Deport them all back - I don't care if they're women and children going back to poverty!  They can do it the legal way like everyone else - THEY'RE NOT SPECIAL!

Hopefully you become homeless some day.

[CARLHAYDEN]

One of the concepts leading to the Revolutionary War was that Americans were being taxed without having representation in the House of Commons.

The slogan then was, "No taxation without representation."

Today, illegal aliens are being represented in the Senate while being promised that they won't have to pay back taxes.

I guess that makes it representation without taxation.

Hmm.

Really, I don't recall anyone ever campaigning for the illegal alien vote... seeing that they can't vote.

Sorry, but you don't need to vote to be represented.

Kennedy, Kyl and McVain believe that are such wonderful people that they should be absolved of paying back taxes (something they don't believe American citizens should be absolved of) and that out of state tuition fees should be waived for them.

Perhaps they understand that such things would benefit the legal residents (who they do represent) as much or more so than the illegal ones. What's the point in collecting back taxes when they weren't using the tax-paid services anyway?

In 2006 it is estimated that Arizonan taxpayers were burdened to the extent of about $1.3 billion because of illegal aliens residing in the state. That estimate is based only on expenditures for education, emergency medical care and incarceration.

Estimated... by whom? The CARLHAYDEN anti-illegal immigration brigade?

In any case, education costs come from property taxes, which can't be collected retroactively since illegal immigrants don't own land (or else taxes were already included in rents). I don't see any way our current health care system could be paying for illegal immigrants as it doesn't even pay for legal residents, so that part is obviously irrelevant. That leaves incarceration, but, while incarcerated, they wouldn't be making money and so wouldn't have any income to pay income back taxes on.

Well, Verily, at least you are consistent, i.e. consistently wrong.

First, under court order, providing for equalization of expenditures, much of the revenues for support of schools in Arizona comes from general revenues.

Second, here is a link to an article from the Tucson Weekly which touches on the matter that you "don't see."

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Currents/Content?oid=oid:69346

Oh, and here's something from the New York Times:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=950DE6DB133CF936A1575BC0A9649C8B63

Third, you asserted: "they weren't using tax-paid services anyway."  Wrong again.

Oh, and if you don't drop your assertion about the costs for criminal activity, I will restart posting of examples and note that such postings are in response to your denial of such activity.

[Dr. Cynic]

Oh, and if you don't drop your assertion about the costs for criminal activity, I will restart posting of examples and note that such postings are in response to your denial of such activity.

Oh Verily, just do what most of us do and just not bother. Just say he's right and drop it... Don't give him reason to post anymore than he already does.

[bullmoose88]

Oh, and if you don't drop your assertion about the costs for criminal activity, I will restart posting of examples and note that such postings are in response to your denial of such activity.

Oh Verily, just do what most of us do and just not bother. Just say he's right and drop it... Don't give him reason to post anymore than he already does.

You hired illegal aliens to type that for you. Because you didn't want to type it yourself.

[Dr. Cynic]

Oh, and if you don't drop your assertion about the costs for criminal activity, I will restart posting of examples and note that such postings are in response to your denial of such activity.

Oh Verily, just do what most of us do and just not bother. Just say he's right and drop it... Don't give him reason to post anymore than he already does.

You hired illegal aliens to type that for you. Because you didn't want to type it yourself.

Why hire illegal aliens to type my posts when I could order pizza?... You're talking to a fat man, Bullmoose. Food takes precedence over laziness.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I for one, am so glad that I live in a city and state where illegal immigration is far from the most pressing concern.

[Mesu]

Sorry, but you don't need to vote to be represented.

If that's the case the complaints about taxation without represenations during revolutionary war times were baseless.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Sorry, but you don't need to vote to be represented.

If that's the case the complaints about taxation without represenations during revolutionary war times were baseless.

Ah, but we weren't being represented.

[Mesu]

Ah, but we weren't being represented.

That's why the original post doesn't makes sense.

What are the legal consequences of the senate not "representing" illegal immigrants?

And also they pay sales taxes.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Ah, but we weren't being represented.

That's why the original post doesn't makes sense.

What are the legal consequences of the senate not "representing" illegal immigrants?

And also they pay sales taxes.

With respect to your first point, no, you simply don't understand.

With respect to your second point, the answer is none.

With respect to your third point, many items are not subject to sales taxex (I joined with former State Representative, and latter Democrat Party Chair John Kromko in working to sucessfully repeal the sales tax on food), and other can legally be avoided (buy you tobacco products on an indian reservation).

[Mesu]

With respect to your first point, no, you simply don't understand.

I guess there could be details about revolutionary period that make it much different. It's been awhile seen I read alot about it.

With respect to your second point, the answer is none.

I should have said political consequences. Even if the senators you mentioned think they answer to illegal immigrants that doesn't change reality. Illegal immigrant have no way of replacing a senator that doesn't represent them. So in reality they are not being represented.

With respect to your third point, many items are not subject to sales taxex (I joined with former State Representative, and latter Democrat Party Chair John Kromko in working to sucessfully repeal the sales tax on food), and other can legally be avoided (buy you tobacco products on an indian reservation).

Food and tobacco aren't the only things illegal immigrants buy.

I guess I approached this thread in the wrong way. In some of the other immigration threads recently as well as this one a common theme I think your trying to stress is fairness for people who aren't illegal immigrants. One of the reasons I can't support ideas like those is the "injustice" happening is low income people receiving economic support. For me to be offended by that would take a different mind set than I'm comfortable taking.

To me people immigrating illegally are not that much different from the people who came for hundreds of years legally before there were any significant immigration laws. The passing of those laws is probably what potentially makes the economy fragile to mass immigration.

[Ebowed]

Haven't you heard of all those reports of illegal immigrants travelling to South Dakotan Indian reservations to buy their tobacco, just to spitefully avoid the sales tax?

[CARLHAYDEN]

To me people immigrating illegally are not that much different from the people who came for hundreds of years legally before there were any significant immigration laws.

Lets address this particular assertion.

First, one must distinguish between "immigration" and "migration."

A simple definition of "immigration" is: "to come into a country of which one is not a native for permanent residence."

Migration can simply be defined as: "to move from one country, place, or locality to another."

Now, those migrating to the United States with no intention to establish permanent residence are commonly classified as "sojourners."  The definition of this term is: " to stay as a temporary resident "

Studies have concluded that most illegal aliens presently in this country differ from immigrants who came to this county fifty or more years ago in that most are NOT seeking to move here permanently, but rather merely come here temporarily, most to obtain suffiecent financial resources to be able to return home to a comfortable lifestyle.

[CARLHAYDEN]

One of the concepts leading to the Revolutionary War was that Americans were being taxed without having representation in the House of Commons.

The slogan then was, "No taxation without representation."

Today, illegal aliens are being represented in the Senate while being promised that they won't have to pay back taxes.

I guess that makes it representation without taxation.

Hmm.

Really, I don't recall anyone ever campaigning for the illegal alien vote... seeing that they can't vote.

Sorry, but you don't need to vote to be represented.

Kennedy, Kyl and McVain believe that are such wonderful people that they should be absolved of paying back taxes (something they don't believe American citizens should be absolved of) and that out of state tuition fees should be waived for them.

Perhaps they understand that such things would benefit the legal residents (who they do represent) as much or more so than the illegal ones. What's the point in collecting back taxes when they weren't using the tax-paid services anyway?

In 2006 it is estimated that Arizonan taxpayers were burdened to the extent of about $1.3 billion because of illegal aliens residing in the state. That estimate is based only on expenditures for education, emergency medical care and incarceration.

Estimated... by whom? The CARLHAYDEN anti-illegal immigration brigade?

In any case, education costs come from property taxes, which can't be collected retroactively since illegal immigrants don't own land (or else taxes were already included in rents). I don't see any way our current health care system could be paying for illegal immigrants as it doesn't even pay for legal residents, so that part is obviously irrelevant. That leaves incarceration, but, while incarcerated, they wouldn't be making money and so wouldn't have any income to pay income back taxes on.

Oh, and a brief squib from the L.A. Times:

"Health services to illegal immigrants in Los Angeles County cost the Medi-Cal program nearly $440 million in 2005, according to the California Department of Health Services. Statewide, that number was more than $1.1 billion last year."