Resolution on the issue of Atlasian recognition of the USA [Failed]

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This bill is absurd, in my opinion, and would ruin any chance atlasia has of recovering by horrendously confusing economics and foreign policy.  We have always been the de facto United States, and should continue to be.

You mean you don't think that economics and foreign policy are horrendously confused right now?

You've been Secretary for External Affairs for quite a while now, yes? And during this time you've hardly done a thing, yes? Did it ever occur to you just why this might be?

[MasterJedi]

This bill is absurd, in my opinion, and would ruin any chance atlasia has of recovering by horrendously confusing economics and foreign policy.  We have always been the de facto United States, and should continue to be.

You mean you don't think that economics and foreign policy are horrendously confused right now?

You've been Secretary for External Affairs for quite a while now, yes? And during this time you've hardly done a thing, yes? Did it ever occur to you just why this might be?

Because the GM's that we've had since Sam Spade and the idiotic newspaper system we have now haven't done anything on it? They have used real world issues and made some stuff up to try and do something with the job. It was done before, and quite well. It hasn't happened for a long time because people didn't want to do it.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Because the GM's that we've had since Sam Spade and the idiotic newspaper system we have now haven't done anything on it?

And had you ever wondered why that might be? It's basically impossible now! (mainly *because* of all the changes to the real-life timeline that were made back then).

[The Man From G.O.P.]

I was of the understanding that we were the US... I believe it would be best to stay that way....



I also believe we were functioning just fine w/o a clear definition of what Atlasia was, perhaps we could continue that way.

[Ebowed]

the idiotic newspaper system

On behalf of the news industry, I would like to point out that if we began publishing random and conflicting international news reports, no politicians would be able to know which, if any, of the news is right, unless they joined the Media Regulation contract, which I am considering doing if this resolution doesn't pass.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Al has a good point (and I believe that way back when John Ford was GM, Iraq was stabilized after Moqata al-Sadr was killed).

I don't however like the idea that the actual population of Atlasia (low three digits) be the "official" population, plus that doesn't fit in with all the civil wars and attempted coups we've had (you need more troops obviously). Truth is though any country with the level of rebellions and coups Atlasia has had would have an economic and political stability similar to Haiti, not a superpower.

[MasterJedi]

Because the GM's that we've had since Sam Spade and the idiotic newspaper system we have now haven't done anything on it?

And had you ever wondered why that might be? It's basically impossible now! (mainly *because* of all the changes to the real-life timeline that were made back then).

So you can't make stuff up to just make stuff up that's reasonable? There is nothing to say that we can't, we don't have to do anything that's happening IRL if we didn't want to. I remember I got Ernest to start a story where I was going to fund a coup in Jamaica(sp?) and take control of the country and then I was going to try and bring it into the US as a state.  He started it before he had to resign due to family medical reasons. That wasn't going to happen but it was going to go through anyway, we could do the same.

the idiotic newspaper system

On behalf of the news industry, I would like to point out that if we began publishing random and conflicting international news reports, no politicians would be able to know which, if any, of the news is right, unless they joined the Media Regulation contract, which I am considering doing if this resolution doesn't pass.

That's why I called it idiotic, nothing on foreign policy and economics can be done now with this horrid system.

[Peter]

The principal problem with us doing anything with foreign policy is that it is now so far fetched - we appear to have solved many of the other problems with the world over the last three years, whilst having civil wars and political instability within our own borders on a regular basis - its just not realistic.

Economics generally isn't cared about by all that many people - the budget is cared about only by the GM and maybe a couple of Senators - in the past, many have been quite content to simply pass the budget as presented to them by the GM (myself included). The process is entirely pointless - it influences nothing else in the political simulation (other than draining about a month of the Senates time) and absolutely no voter cares about it on election day. General economics also has little to no effect, as again, beyond a handful of die-hards, nobody cares.

[jokerman]

Because the GM's that we've had since Sam Spade and the idiotic newspaper system we have now haven't done anything on it?

And had you ever wondered why that might be? It's basically impossible now! (mainly *because* of all the changes to the real-life timeline that were made back then).

Other gov sims get a decade or more into the future and manage to simulate everything down to profesional sports feasibly.

[jokerman]

Something I could get behind is restoring our history to that of the U.S., and setting a point (after we had a suitable game management team assembled) we would diverge from the U.S.

[True Democrat]

Something I could get behind is restoring our history to that of the U.S., and setting a point (after we had a suitable game management team assembled) we would diverge from the U.S.

I think that's the best option.

[minionofmidas]

Because the GM's that we've had since Sam Spade and the idiotic newspaper system we have now haven't done anything on it?

And had you ever wondered why that might be? It's basically impossible now! (mainly *because* of all the changes to the real-life timeline that were made back then).

Other gov sims get a decade or more into the future and manage to simulate everything down to profesional sports feasibly.

Other gov sims have never had a deranged hack for a GM. (I'm thinking of Ford in particular, but not exclusively...)
And we're not going to get a "suitable game management team assembled". We have way too few players and way too many positions already. All of which matters wouldn't nearly as much if we didn't pretend to be very powerful.

Al has a good point (and I believe that way back when John Ford was GM, Iraq was stabilized after Moqata al-Sadr was killed).

I don't however like the idea that the actual population of Atlasia (low three digits) be the "official" population, plus that doesn't fit in with all the civil wars and attempted coups we've had (you need more troops obviously).

Bah, Indian war parties were frequently only about ten people strong. The low three digits has been struck from the bill already, anyways.

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Yeah, we'd probably have UN peacekeeping troops in by now.

[Ebowed]

Something I could get behind is restoring our history to that of the U.S., and setting a point (after we had a suitable game management team assembled) we would diverge from the U.S.

Lewis, what do you think of this?

[minionofmidas]

Something I could get behind is restoring our history to that of the U.S., and setting a point (after we had a suitable game management team assembled) we would diverge from the U.S.

Lewis, what do you think of this?

And we're not going to get a "suitable game management team assembled". We have way too few players and way too many positions already.

It would basically mean restarting without correcting any of the flaws that led to the problems in the first place, virtually ensuring that they would occur once again.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It would basically mean restarting without correcting any of the flaws that led to the problems in the first place, virtually ensuring that they would occur once again.

And that would be a problem how?  Having foreign affairs remain in lockstep with reality is at least as much of a problem as having them diverge.

[minionofmidas]

It would basically mean restarting without correcting any of the flaws that led to the problems in the first place, virtually ensuring that they would occur once again.

And that would be a problem how? 

Because they would very quickly disappear from the game once again?
Let's face it - a country that changes its leaders every four months doesn't have a whole lot of global influence, no matter what it's size.

[WiseGuy]

I can't remember if I'm allowed to comment, but I have to say something.  Al complained about not being able to use RL events.  So?  Make stuff up.  This isn't supposed to be RL, it's supposed to be a game.

[True Democrat]

I think voting on this resolution would be premature.  I would ask the sponsor to withdraw it so we can have a truly national discussion on it (including asking the presidential candidates their opinion).

[MasterJedi]

I can't remember if I'm allowed to comment, but I have to say something.  Al complained about not being able to use RL events.  So?  Make stuff up.  This isn't supposed to be RL, it's supposed to be a game.

That's what I've been saying but they make up stupid excuses of why not. We did it before and we could do it again, there is no reason why we can't or why it wasn't done by the last GM's.

[Ebowed]

We did it before and we could do it again, there is no reason why we can't or why it wasn't done by the last GM's.

Too unrealistic.  Atlasia solves all of the world's problems while our real-life counterpart drags on.

[Colin]

Since I would be away, and this is likely to be a close vote, I would like to state that my absentee vote for this bill would be Aye. If it is possible I would like it to be counted as much if this comes to a vote while I'm away.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Since I would be away, and this is likely to be a close vote, I would like to state that my absentee vote for this bill would be Aye. If it is possible I would like it to be counted as much if this comes to a vote while I'm away.

What is the protocol on absentee senate voting?

[Colin]

Since I would be away, and this is likely to be a close vote, I would like to state that my absentee vote for this bill would be Aye. If it is possible I would like it to be counted as much if this comes to a vote while I'm away.

What is the protocol on absentee senate voting?

Well when I had left before for long periods, during Gabu's tenure as SoFA, I used to just PM him a few votes on some bills that would probably be up for voting and he would count them the same as if I was here in the Senate, as long as the bill hadn't changed, in essence, from its original form.

[Sam Spade]

I cannot support this resolution for the reasons stated by Senator Ernest.

[Sam Spade]

In my new effort to stall legislation, I wish to amend the entirety of this legislation to read as follows:
Whereas, contrary to the official standpoint of the Atlasian government, the United States of America are still in existence, and still in possession of all the territories formerly in their possession, the Government of Atlasia is urged to launch a full-scale invasion of the United States of America.