Interesting USA Today/Gallup Poll

[CARLHAYDEN]

Opinions go against immigration measure, poll says
USA Today
Jun. 4, 2007 02:03 PM

WASHINGTON - As the Senate prepares to vote on a landmark immigration bill, a USA Today/Gallup Poll finds that Americans who have an opinion about it are overwhelmingly opposed to the deal.

By nearly 3-1, those who have a view say they're against the compromise supported by Senate Democratic leaders and President Bush. However, 58 percent of those surveyed say they don't know enough about the legislation to favor or oppose it.

The telephone poll of 1,007 adults was taken Friday through Sunday. The margin of error is plus or minus 3 percentage points.
 
The bill would grant about 12 million immigrants living illegally in the United States a chance to become citizens. It also would expand the "guest-worker" program and change the criteria for admitting immigrants to give less weight to family ties and more to job skills.

An ABC News/Washington Post survey released Monday found narrow majorities of Americans supported an expanded guest-worker program and a path to legal status for illegal immigrants in the United States.

The legislation has divided the Republican Party - it seems sure to be raised at tonight's debate in New Hampshire among the Republican presidential field - and brought withering criticism from such conservative talk-show hosts as Rush Limbaugh and Lou Dobbs.

A bipartisan group of senators, led by Massachusetts Democratic Edward Kennedy and Arizona Republican Jon Kyl, have defeated amendments that would have upended the bill's fragile compromises.

One key debate this week is likely to be over the priority that would be given in the legislation to immigrants with particular job skills.

Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., has proposed continuing the priority given to family ties in current law to hundreds of thousands of people who have applied for green cards.

New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, both Democratic presidential contenders, have endorsed that proposal.

Kyl says he'll withdraw his support for the bill if the amendment passes.

In the USA Today/Gallup Poll, Americans were split on the issue: 44 percent say those with family ties in the USA should be given preference; 43 percent say highly skilled workers should be given preference.

Charges that the bill amounts to "amnesty" for illegal immigrants have struck a chord among foes. In response to an open-ended question, 39 percent of the bill's critics cite "amnesty" as a reason for their opposition.

Among supporters, reasons most often cited were the need to do something to address the issue and the feeling that the bill's provisions were fair.

In the poll, 30 percent oppose the bill and 11 percent favor it. Four percent say they "strongly favor" the measure while 18 percent "strongly oppose" it.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Oh, and here's some more details previously withheld:

Some cross tabs comparing how closely a person is following the Senate amnesty bill and their position on that proposed legislation.

Based on what you have heard or read about it, do you favor or oppose this proposed bill, or don't you know enough to say?

                                  Favor          Oppose          Don't Know        No answer
 
How closely                 
following news
about immigration
bill?

Very closely                 17%             61%                 20%                  2%

Somewhat closely       15                37                     48                     0

Not Closely                   4                  9                     87                     0 

[agcatter]

In other words, the more one knows about the bill, the more they are likely to oppose it.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Exactly!

[Alcon]

Although, there's the obvious caveat that people overestimate their education religiously on questions like that.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I really like to deal in facts, and suggest everyone check out the following
url to get the accurate info on Senate votes, not what the liberal media
tells you.  http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu

Here are some key votes on S. 1348:

Roll Call    S. Amdt  Sponsor   Vote                     Summary
Vote No.   Number                                              of Amdt

174           1153      Dorgan   31Yes 64 Nay      To strike the Y nonimmigrant
                                                                         guestworker program

177           1158      Coleman 48 Yea 49 Nay     To facilitate information
                                                                          sharing between federal
                                                                          and local law enforcement
                                                                          officials related to an
                                                                          individual’s immigration
                                                                          statis

182           1189     Allard        31 Yea 62 Nay    To eliminate the preference
                                                                          given to people who entered
                                                                          the U.S. illegally over people
                                                                          seeking to enter the country
                                                                          legally

184          1170     McConnell  41 Yea 52 Nay    To require photo ID to vote
                                                                          in person.

187          1184     Cornyn       46 Yea 51 Nay    To bar gang members,
                                                                          terrorists, and other
                                                                          criminals from receiving
                                                                          legalized status

188          1197    DeMint        43 Yea 55 Nay    To require health care 
                                                                          coverage for holders of Z
                                                                          nonimmigrant visas

Interesting aside, in Vote Number 201 on S. Amdt. 1316 offered by Senator
Dorgan to sunset the guestworker proposal after 5 years was adopted after it had only a few days previous as Vote No. 178 S. Amdt 1181.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'll improve this thread by posting something with more value than another CARLHAYDEN illegal immigration rant.

Well, there once were two cowboys all alone out on the trail
And they discovered they could sleep with another male
Now they're havin' butt sex
Cowboy butt sex
Sodomyyyyyyyyyyyy
Come on everybody!
Sodomyyyyyyyyyyyy
Sodomyyyyyyyyyyyy
Sodomy

[CARLHAYDEN]

Although, there's the obvious caveat that people overestimate their education religiously on questions like that.

Oh, and BTW, let me suggest that you check out the number of readers of posts and guests logged on, as opposed to those who post replies or are members logged on.  When posting this note I found that there were 12 Users logged on, and 241 Guests!

I am delighted to allow the readers to contrast my posts (I try to present facts with sources, and logical arguments) as opposed to the posts of BRTD and company. 

Now I understand that YOUR sympathies lie with BRTD and his associates, but do not assume that BRTD and his 'friends' constitute the bulk of the readers at this forum.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No, you present logical fallacies, the most common being the Spotlight Fallacy

Luckily, we once got this brilliant reply to such a fallacy posting, and it serves as a great stock reply to all your threads:

If you only knew how much most of your ramblings would fit the Volkischer Beobachter from the 1930s. You are a true national-sociallist, no question of that - and I am increasingly convinced that your type would fit better in Germany, not in Italy.  Unfortunately, I've known too many people like you (I grew up in a place where many people are proud Nazis), I can't mistake the type. As they say in Russia (I always loved Reagan's habit of using Russian proverbs left and right ), the hunchback can only be cured by being burried in a grave - moral hunchbacks like you are equally incorrigible.  You are outside human morality, that's what the problem with you.

I don't really have time, nor energy to react to all the venom you've been spouting, so I will not react to this anymore - I will just ignore your existence from now on.  Mercifully, the US is a strong country - the scum lilke you will forever be marginal there. That is why I love the US.

[Alcon]

Although, there's the obvious caveat that people overestimate their education religiously on questions like that.

Oh, and BTW, let me suggest that you check out the number of readers of posts and guests logged on, as opposed to those who post replies or are members logged on.  When posting this note I found that there were 12 Users logged on, and 241 Guests!

I am delighted to allow the readers to contrast my posts (I try to present facts with sources, and logical arguments) as opposed to the posts of BRTD and company. 

Now I understand that YOUR sympathies lie with BRTD and his associates, but do not assume that BRTD and his 'friends' constitute the bulk of the readers at this forum.

Sorry to disappoint you, but those are mostly search engine bots.  Almost all of them, in fact; when search engine bots are disallowed, we usually have fewer guests than members.

(Don't assume I have sympathies for BRTD.  He deserves whatever he has coming.  )

[HardRCafé]

187          1184     Cornyn       46 Yea 51 Nay    To bar gang members,
                                                                          terrorists, and other
                                                                          criminals from receiving
                                                                          legalized status

Was there at least some weird rider clause to attempt to justify this?

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

187          1184     Cornyn       46 Yea 51 Nay    To bar gang members,
                                                                          terrorists, and other
                                                                          criminals from receiving
                                                                          legalized status

Was there at least some weird rider clause to attempt to justify this?

The difficulty in proving who is and who is not a gang member, perhaps?

[Gabu]

I really like to deal in facts

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally hate facts.  Even facts that bolster my position, I hate.  So much so that one time a guy told me that the sky was blue, and I punched him right in the face and then murdered him with a hammer.

[HardRCafé]

That strongly suggests you are a gang member!

[Joe Republic]

I really like to deal in facts

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally hate facts.  Even facts that bolster my position, I hate.  So much so that one time a guy told me that the sky was blue, and I punched him right in the face and then murdered him with a hammer.

Is that a fact?

[Gabu]

I really like to deal in facts

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally hate facts.  Even facts that bolster my position, I hate.  So much so that one time a guy told me that the sky was blue, and I punched him right in the face and then murdered him with a hammer.

Is that a fact?

Absolutely not.

What do you think I am, suicidal?

[HardRCafé]

Aww.

[CARLHAYDEN]

187          1184     Cornyn       46 Yea 51 Nay    To bar gang members,
                                                                          terrorists, and other
                                                                          criminals from receiving
                                                                          legalized status

No!

Was there at least some weird rider clause to attempt to justify this?

The difficulty in proving who is and who is not a gang member, perhaps?

[CARLHAYDEN]

I really like to deal in facts

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally hate facts. 

Tell us something not self evident by your prior posts.

[Joe Republic]

I really like to deal in facts

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally hate facts. 

Tell us something

He already told you lots of things.  The man's not a machine, Carl.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I really like to deal in facts

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally hate facts. 

Tell us something

He already told you lots of things.  The man's not a machine, Carl.

Please do not change my statements to change the substance.

The full quote was "Tell us something not self evident from you prior posts."

[Joe Republic]

No kidding.

Surely it was obvious that I was lampooning the series of posts in which the quotes had been shortened so as to alter the meaning of them, in order to make it easier to poke fun at them?

Does everything so simple need to be spelled out for you so?

[CARLHAYDEN]

No kidding.

Surely it was obvious that I was lampooning the series of posts in which the quotes had been shortened so as to alter the meaning of them, in order to make it easier to poke fun at them?

Does everything so simple need to be spelled out for you so?

Well, lets see.

First, I didn't alter any sentence by adding or deleting something from a sentence, you did.

Second, it seems to me to be be kind to not reproduce Gabu's allegation of violent actions on his part.

[Gabu]

I really like to deal in facts

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally hate facts. 

Tell us something not self evident by your prior posts.

Today I had two tuna sandwiches and a bottle of orange juice for lunch.

I bet you didn't glean that from my prior posts.

[Alcon]

I really like to deal in facts

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally hate facts. 

Tell us something not self evident by your prior posts.

Today I had two tuna sandwiches and a bottle of orange juice for lunch.

I bet you didn't glean that from my prior posts.

HEY HEY HEY

That better not have been a fact.