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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2004, 03:19:03 PM »

My problem with joining the ACLU (aside from the membership fees) is their defense of NAMBLA.

They defend those whackjobs?  That's f'ed up.  

Anyone every see the South Park about them?  Hilarious!
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2004, 03:20:19 PM »


Death penalty - only for cop killers.


I'm not quite sure what you mean... is the person who shoots and kills me should die, but who shoots you does not?

I say jail for life for both instead... Why stoop to there level. An Eye for an Eye is an ancient concept.

This post bothered me too - how is my life less valuable than a cop's? Though, I say they should both die - eye for an eye may be ancient, but that doesn't mean it has no merit. You have a murder in your family and I think you'll change your tune.
I have and i didn't
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2004, 05:28:59 PM »


Death penalty - only for cop killers.


I'm not quite sure what you mean... is the person who shoots and kills me should die, but who shoots you does not?

I say jail for life for both instead... Why stoop to there level. An Eye for an Eye is an ancient concept.

This post bothered me too - how is my life less valuable than a cop's? Though, I say they should both die - eye for an eye may be ancient, but that doesn't mean it has no merit. You have a murder in your family and I think you'll change your tune.

I still think rotting in a jail cell for the rest of their life and then dying alone is horrid.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2004, 08:22:30 PM »

I still think rotting in a jail cell for the rest of their life and then dying alone is horrid.


If that were the case I would agree.

Considering the luxuries afforded to people in prison, I say just kill them. When you violate the rights of others and your guilt is proven, I say you lose the rights you took. I say it's not only a good thing to do to kill a murderer, I say it's moral.

I'd prefer them to either die or work VERY HARD labor for the rest of their lives.

My neighbor has an interesting idea - buy up all the land in Alabama, wall it off, and release violent prisoners into the wild to fend for themselves.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2004, 08:36:00 PM »

I still think rotting in a jail cell for the rest of their life and then dying alone is horrid.


If that were the case I would agree.

Maybe we could reinstate it, just for those lifers-without-perolers Smiley
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John Dibble
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« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2004, 08:56:47 PM »

Pretty generous with the land as long as it is Alabama, eh? Why not wall off Georgia?

It was a joke. People in Georgia always make fun of Alabama(and as I understand it, people in Alabama make fun of Mississippi).

Alabama has a lower population anyways, easier to relocate people. Smiley Of course, how bout Wyoming istead - small population, and it's a square shape, easier to build the wall.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2004, 08:58:17 PM »

I still think rotting in a jail cell for the rest of their life and then dying alone is horrid.


If that were the case I would agree.

Maybe we could reinstate it, just for those lifers-without-perolers Smiley

I'd be in favor of that. The guy who killed my father has life-without-parole.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2004, 09:04:32 PM »

Building the wall through some pretty high mountains might be tricky! Put 'em in Puerto Rico!

Better idea - we'll buy one of Canada's northern provinces and wall that off.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2004, 09:06:29 PM »

I still think rotting in a jail cell for the rest of their life and then dying alone is horrid.


If that were the case I would agree.

Maybe we could reinstate it, just for those lifers-without-perolers Smiley

I'd be in favor of that. The guy who killed my father has life-without-parole.

I'm sorry Sad *is unsure what to say other than that*)


Anyway, I think there should be a little laughing slot in it so you can laugh at the prisoner's misery and squalor.  Ahahahahah!
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John Dibble
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« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2004, 09:20:02 PM »

I still think rotting in a jail cell for the rest of their life and then dying alone is horrid.


If that were the case I would agree.

Maybe we could reinstate it, just for those lifers-without-perolers Smiley

I'd be in favor of that. The guy who killed my father has life-without-parole.

I'm sorry Sad *is unsure what to say other than that*)


Anyway, I think there should be a little laughing slot in it so you can laugh at the prisoner's misery and squalor.  Ahahahahah!

No. Even though I think he deserves to suffer, I don't find any joy in inflicting suffering on the wicked and deserving - it's merely something that must be done. To get joy out of suffering would make me no better.
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Citizen James
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« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2004, 12:38:47 AM »

I find my positions amazingly close to Raggage in many ways.  But, rather than just cut and paste, I'll put in my own specifics.

Abortion:
I don't particulary like it, but I see it as being an individual choice.   I can see limiting 'partial birth' to situations where the mother's life is endangered, though I consider it more of a wedge issue than a frequent problem.  (that said, I consider it a well played wedge issue).  I consider encouraging birth control (which can include the 100% effective abstinence) to help decrease the number of cases where the difficult choice needs to be made.

Iraq:

Although the fall of dictators is never a bad thing, it distracted resources from more important issues (such as stabilizing Afganistan and tracking down terrorists).  Not to mention that now that we have a major humanitarian crisis currently in Sudan, we are too overstreched to help.

In addition, the war was planned poorly, working on the unrealistic expectation that everyone would welcome us with open arms - thus leaving out important matters such as having sufficent manpower to keep order, having the sort of international and regional support to give the action an air of legitimacy and keep this from turning into a major recruiting tool for the terrorists, to say nothing of the horific results of snubbing the Genevia conventions.

Tax Cuts:

Tax cuts paid for by deficit financing are no cuts at all - merely deferments with interest.   Taxes are the rent we pay for all the benefits living in this great nation gives us.  I welcome open and honest debate over what the spending priorities should be, and what actions constitute waste; But all told I would love to be making enough to be in a higher income bracket again.

Gun Control:

Anyone who want's to carry a blunderbuss is free to Wink .  As I do not advocate the violent overthrow of the government, I see no need for civilians to have millitary-grade weapons.   I would close gun show loopholes and set minimum quality standards to discourage the cheap 'saturday night specials' and the such which are popular with two-bit criminals for their cost and disposibility.

Education:

It's more of a state issue, but I encourage class size reduction, and sufficent funding to attract more teachers.  (then again, I'm studying to become one - so I wouldn't mind the extra cash either).

Religion:

No endorsement of religion from any position in government while on the clock.   People are free to have whatever faith they choose on their own time.  Remove the McCarthy era 'under God' from the pledge.  (why  is a promise written by a socialist so big with conservatives anyway?)

Homeland Security:

Wasn't the CIA originally designed to co-ordinate intellegence operations anyway.  Identify and find ways to break down bariers to interdepartment co-operation.  (It can be done - the traditional rivalries between the branches of the millitary have greatly diminished improving our ability to pull off combined operations)

I think that better intel, and lower profile operations make for less impressive press, but more effective security.  Survaliance, 'snatch and grabs', and tracking down and cutting off the money trails may not make for huge headlines, but it critically harms the terrorists ability to operate while minimizing the 'collateral damage' which makes a great recruiting point for the terrorists and their sympathisers. (pictures of dead civilians - especially women and children - are very effective in getting people mad enough to kill and support those who thrive on the hatred of the west.)

Other Civil Liberties:

I have mixed feelings on Affermiative action.  In cases where discrimination does keep qualified minorities out of the loop it can be a remedy, but the impression of 'reverse descrimination' tends to feed the cycle of bias so it needs to be carefully considered and applied.

I see no problem with gays serving in the millitary.   I see the 'don't ask, don't misbehave' attitude of the british as a decent comprimise.   And the don't misbehave should apply to all orientations.

Gay Marriage:

I like the 'civil unions for all' solution many have pointed out - adds a legal equality for partners no matter what the persuation, while allowing churches to decide for themselves what they consider to be 'Marriage'.

Death Penalty:

Given the questionable legal process which has (by new DNA techniques) discovered several death row inmates to be not guilty, I have my doubts as to the effectiveness of the safeguards.   In clear cut and severe cases I consider it an option, though rotting away in a jail cell is probably more fitting.

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ilikeverin
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« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2004, 08:07:41 AM »

I still think rotting in a jail cell for the rest of their life and then dying alone is horrid.


If that were the case I would agree.

Maybe we could reinstate it, just for those lifers-without-perolers Smiley

I'd be in favor of that. The guy who killed my father has life-without-parole.

I'm sorry Sad *is unsure what to say other than that*)


Anyway, I think there should be a little laughing slot in it so you can laugh at the prisoner's misery and squalor.  Ahahahahah!

No. Even though I think he deserves to suffer, I don't find any joy in inflicting suffering on the wicked and deserving - it's merely something that must be done. To get joy out of suffering would make me no better.
Perhaps other people do.  I don't know.
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« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2004, 01:20:38 PM »
« Edited: July 21, 2004, 01:21:08 PM by Better Red Than Dead »

All terrorist sponsoring states must be toppled.  Iraq was #2.  Who wants to be #3?

where's the money, resources and troops to do so?

Why don't you quit being a hypocrite and head down to your enlistement office?
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2004, 07:32:19 PM »

All terrorist sponsoring states must be toppled.  Iraq was #2.  Who wants to be #3?

where's the money, resources and troops to do so?

Why don't you quit being a hypocrite and head down to your enlistement office?

Why don't you tell your mom to stop begging me for sex?
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
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« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2004, 08:21:55 PM »

All terrorist sponsoring states must be toppled.  Iraq was #2.  Who wants to be #3?

where's the money, resources and troops to do so?

Why don't you quit being a hypocrite and head down to your enlistement office?

Why don't you tell your mom to stop begging me for sex?

ad hominem attack, dodges the issue.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
htmldon
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« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2004, 08:37:32 PM »
« Edited: July 21, 2004, 08:39:50 PM by Governor htmldon »

Abortion:

I consider myself pro-life, but I believe abortion is "more wrong" the later it is in the pregnancy. I have no problem with a morning-after pill and I would continue the legality of the abortion procedure in the first few months.

Iraq:

I support the toppling of any murderous dictator regardless of race, ethinicity, national origin, creed, color, or sexual orientation.

Tax Cuts:

I am getting ill with the choice between "tax and spend" and "tax cut and spend".

Gun Control:

You should always have control over your gun and make sure you have good aim when you are taking out society's trash.


Education:

I strongly support school choice.  We need to explore charter schools and voucher programs.  Private schools shouldn't just be a priveledge of the rich and Democrat elected officials.


Religion:

has nothing to do with the affairs of the state.


Homeland Security:

Tom Ridge and his team are doing a great job.  I supported the idea of the DHS.

Other Civil Liberties:

Repeal BCRA - Campaign Finance Deform
Replace John Asscrotch with Marc Raciot.

Gay Marriage:

I believe marriage is between a committed man and woman with the intention of raising the next generation.  Any other definition, including the hypocritical definition given by the "Christian right", is unacceptable.

Death Penalty:

We need a temporary moratorium in order to sort out the many problems we have with our justice system.  The death penalty is a just punishment, but we are not excersising it justly.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2004, 08:58:46 PM »

All terrorist sponsoring states must be toppled.  Iraq was #2.  Who wants to be #3?

where's the money, resources and troops to do so?

Why don't you quit being a hypocrite and head down to your enlistement office?

Why don't you tell your mom to stop begging me for sex?

ad hominem attack, dodges the issue.

Excuse me, but you're the one who went down the chickenhawk road.  You want ad hominem, you can have it.

If you really watned to address the issues, you would have.
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BRTD
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« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2004, 09:01:15 PM »

well why don't you enlist?

since we obviously don't have enough troops to invade every nation you want to.
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Brambila
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« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2004, 09:51:21 PM »
« Edited: July 21, 2004, 10:04:44 PM by Brambila »

Abortion:

Support the right to life for the human being from the moment of conception.

Iraq:

I supported the idea, and supported Bush in the beginning, but now I think we need to get out. The Iraqis are obviously not grateful, and obviously don't want us there, so just leave. Let the terrorists kill everyone there.

Tax Cuts:

I think we should institute tithing- that is, you give 10% of yourself, which can be property or labor for the government every year. So if you make 50k, either give 5k, or work for the government for a certain amount of hours.

Gun Control:

Use both hands. Keep the lock on. Follow the rules.

Educations:

Eliminate government-sponsered scholastics- the government has no right to brainwash our children. Immediately sell all public schools to private organizations. Either keep the education funding and transfer it into vouchers, or eliminate taxes for education.

Religion:

No established religion should run the government. Keep "Under God" in the pledge. Allow public display of religious symbols and prayer in schools.

Homeland Security:

They arn't doing a good job. I like the idea, but it needs to be reformed.

Other Civil Liberties:

End Affirmative Action. Legalize marajiuana. More religious rights.

Gay Marriage:

End government-defined marriage. While it's legal, allow civil unions. Homosexual couples cannot adopt, as science proves children need both a mother and father to be psychologically stable.  

Death Penalty:

It should be rare if not nonexistent.

Immigration:

Pardon the illegal immigrants through background checks and making them tax-paying citizens. Afterwards, be more strict on the borders, but encourage legal immigration. End all immigration prisons.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2004, 10:34:35 PM »

well why don't you enlist?

since we obviously don't have enough troops to invade every nation you want to.

Three things.

First, if I enlist, the overall size of the force structure doesn't change.  That is a policy decision made at the top of the chain of command.

Second, I have given very serious consideration to joining the US Navy as a submariner after college.  I know very little about naval warfare as compared to what I know about land warfare, and joining the Navy is a good way to learn.

Third, if you would like a list of reasons why I haven't leapt up to enlist, here is one.

Low military pay:  For years I have complained about the low pay grades in the US military.  Things have not significantly improved and do not seem likely to improve in the future.  I don't need money for college or job training, either.  Unlike many Americans, I have no financial incentive to join the military.

I'd lose several years:  The reality is that people who join the military give up a significant amount of time to do so.  Three or four years of floating around the ocean gets in the way of career opportunities.

Lack of faith in higher ups:  I do not have much fath in the ability of the highest civilians (Bush, Rumsfeld) to proerly execute a war at this point.  If I die in combat, I'll be damned if its because the rules of engagement say I can't shoot first.

I have a problem with authority:  Maybe you've noticed, but I'm not a warm and fuzzy guy a lot of the time.  I don't think drill sargaents would enjoy my company, frankly.  That can lead to problems.

Every four years, you get a new boss!:  Thats right.  Think you're signing up to fight the commnists?  Well guess what, Bill Clinton would rather send you on a meaningless mission to Haiti or Bosnia.  Think you'll get a crack at Osama?  Guess again.  John Kerry wants you to wear a blue helmet and be subject to the ICC.

There are some reaosns I don't sign up.  The military isn't a very good job, and it doesn't pay well.  There are a lot of downsides, and feew upsdes.  Nevertheless, I still haven't completely removed it from consideration.
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
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« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2004, 11:46:06 PM »

valid reasons, but explain how to invade all these nations without the resources and manpower.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2004, 12:07:48 AM »
« Edited: July 22, 2004, 12:08:03 AM by John Ford »

valid reasons, but explain how to invade all these nations without the resources and manpower.

We can't.  But the lack of manpower is a choice we have made.  We had 18 Divisions at the end of the Cold War and voluntarily got rid of them.  With decent troop pay, we could have more than enough people.
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Bono
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« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2004, 03:13:22 AM »

I'd like to ammend my statement.
Abortion
After reflection, I'm now pro-life. Maybe tollerant with abortions in the first 3 months, but unsure. Tollerant for sure of next day pills.
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raggage
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« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2004, 03:56:16 AM »

I'd like to ammend my statement.
Abortion
After reflection, I'm now pro-life. Maybe tollerant with abortions in the first 3 months, but unsure. Tollerant for sure of next day pills.

Portugal is heavily conservative in this regard is it not. I heard somewhere it is a federal offence to procure an abortion as the country is predominantly Catholic?

You must be on the liberal side of the issue in your country in  this regard?
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Bono
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« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2004, 04:10:37 AM »

I'd like to ammend my statement.
Abortion
After reflection, I'm now pro-life. Maybe tollerant with abortions in the first 3 months, but unsure. Tollerant for sure of next day pills.

Portugal is heavily conservative in this regard is it not. I heard somewhere it is a federal offence to procure an abortion as the country is predominantly Catholic?

You must be on the liberal side of the issue in your country in  this regard?

No. You're probabily confusing with Ireland. In Portugal. In Portugal, it is legal to have an abortion until 12 weeks(or is it 8?), given therer is a risk to the health of the mother or the baby. Otherwise it is a crime(not a federal offense becuase Portugal is not a federal state Smiley ) but judges are not very emphatic punishing it, ven because the former prime-minister Barroso said in the next legislative session, if he was in still in power, he would de-criminalize it. But with the change of government now, I'm not sure what will happen. The parties in power are the same tough, so I don't know. But it's not allways a crime, altough the legislation is very restrictive. There is a lot of clandestine abortions going on, oh that's sure.
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