The great big immigration bill debate
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  The great big immigration bill debate
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Author Topic: The great big immigration bill debate  (Read 2455 times)
MasterJedi
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« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2007, 04:24:51 PM »

Entry visas are what really needs to be addressed in a second immigration bill. That's where the most illegal immigrants come from and even less happens on it than the southern boarder. 14 of the 9/11 hijackers should have been deported for these reasons.

So, there should be one bill for the boarders and boarder patrol and another for massive reforms and enforcement of entry visas.
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RRB
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« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2007, 09:35:03 PM »

Oh, I see.  The problem then is the law which doesn't allow them to be here in the first place.  Everyone in Mexico should be allowed to flood across the border and  overrun our health care system paid for in increased insurance premiums by the rest of us.  While we're at it, provide a free education for children of illegals (over a million in my state at $6500 per child), and means tested welfare payments for millions of low wage illegals.  All paid for by taxes paid for by American citizens.  Hell, no wonder the Mexican government publishes instructional pamplets on how to get across the border.

While I am on the other side of the political spectrum, it is hard to argue with your point.

The Mexican government can't believe their good fortune.  Dumb gringos.  Approximately 3000 cross the border every day.  The U. S. is the land of milk and honey.  Their milk and honey, our bill.
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David S
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« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2007, 08:10:56 AM »

If you want to end illegal immigration you need to elect a president who is committed to doing it. This is Ron Paul's position on the subject:
http://blog.ronpaul2008.com/ron_paul_2008/2007/06/press_release_n.html

Press Release: No Amnesty, No Welfare

No Amnesty, No Welfare for Illegal Aliens

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

June 18, 2007

ARLINGTON, VA – As a congressman, Ron Paul has been a leader in the fight to end illegal immigration.  He voted for a border fence, opposes the current Senate "compromise" bill, and introduced legislation to end birth right citizenship.  Dr. Paul has consistently warned Americans about the looming menace of the North American Union and is the only presidential candidate calling for an end to welfare benefits, mandatory medical care and free education for illegal aliens.

"No leader in Washington has fought to end illegal immigration harder than Congressman Ron Paul," said Ron Paul 2008 campaign chairman Kent Snyder. "Dr. Paul knows that America must never grant amnesty to those who are in our country illegally."

The following are statements Dr. Paul has made in the U.S. House of Representatives:

--  "The much-vaunted Senate "compromise" on immigration is a compromise alright:  a compromise of our laws, a compromise of our sovereignty, and a compromise of the Second Amendment.  That anyone in Washington believes this is a credible approach to solving our immigration crisis suggests just how out of touch our political elites really are."

--  "If we reward millions who came here illegally, surely millions more will follow suit.  Ten years from now we will be in the same position, with a whole new generation of lawbreakers seeking amnesty."

--  "...real national security cannot be achieved unless and until our borders are physically secured.  It's as simple as that.  All the talk about fighting terror and making America safer is meaningless without border security.  It makes no sense to seek terrorists abroad if our own front door is left unlocked."
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2007, 11:35:24 AM »


First, are you categorically stating that there are not now, and never will be any aliens illegally entering this country who will commit terrorists acts here?



Well, perfection is NOT the objective, but reasonable security levels are.


I agree that we shouldn't scare ourselves with the idea of 1 terrorist crossing the border at some point in the future because we didn't go to extreme measures(like alot people want) with security.



Interesting.

Its nice the Mesu admits that he supports "open borders," and opposes border security.  Now, it we could just get Bush, Kennedy, McCain et al to tell the truth.

I've indicted this before however I was still learning my position on immigration when I came to this site. My natural bias was that amnesty was good but still I've read just about every article you posted for the last 2 months(even that so called "excellent" one) and there wasn't anything very compelling.

As far as Bush, Kennedy, and McCain I won't pretend to know what they're thinking but it is interesting how the anti-immigration sentiment has a chilling effect on what senators can say they support.

Gets labeled unreasonable?  Uh, it kind of is.  I had to take my wife to the emergency room last month.  It was packed.  I don't think anyone else in the waiting room spoke English.   It was being used as their primary care.  Hooray, we get to pay for their healthcare.  Lovely.  Just what we need, more dependents --  and they're not even supposed to be here.  What's wrong with this picture?


What's wrong with the picture is they are classified as not supposed to be here. Pretending like we don't to account for them in emerency room funding isn't going to change the situtation(it can only make it worse).


First, its too bad you are incapable of understanding the articles I have posted.

Second, it may have something to do with you inability to communicate effectively in English and your dedication to irrationality.

I'm putting you on the ignore list until you learn English, stop making things up, and try thinking rather than emoting.
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Mesu
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« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2007, 12:27:35 AM »
« Edited: June 20, 2007, 12:49:19 AM by Mesu »

Oh, I see.  The problem then is the law which doesn't allow them to be here in the first place.  Everyone in Mexico should be allowed to flood across the border and  overrun our health care system paid for in increased insurance premiums by the rest of us.  While we're at it, provide a free education for children of illegals (over a million in my state at $6500 per child), and means tested welfare payments for millions of low wage illegals.  All paid for by taxes paid for by American citizens.  Hell, no wonder the Mexican government publishes instructional pamplets on how to get across the border.


I don't know to what extent open borders are or aren't possible but if the legislature somehow "knows"  then they might just as well not know because that's not the primary reason for their policy decisions(The reason wide spread immigration laws were first created in 1882 wasn't because open borders are unreasonable).

It is generally a good idea for law to reflect reality ESPECIALLY when the actions of individuals breaking the law isn't directly harming anyone. If a gradual approach to open borders would work we should do that. What is not a good idea is making it so emergency rooms will deny visits to illegal immigrants based on the fact that they are not legal or can't prove they are legal.


The Mexican government can't believe their good fortune.  Dumb gringos.  Approximately 3000 cross the border every day.  The U. S. is the land of milk and honey.  Their milk and honey, our bill.


And if they were made legal they would be part of us. I don't see how the perspective of mexican government is that important.


First, its too bad you are incapable of understanding the articles I have posted.

Second, it may have something to do with you inability to communicate effectively in English and your dedication to irrationality.

I'm putting you on the ignore list until you learn English, stop making things up, and try thinking rather than emoting.

And if I had a anti-amnesty bias when I read those articles I doubt I could end up your ignore list. That's fine though I didn't come here to annoy you with my views about immigration.
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agcatter
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« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2007, 07:39:09 AM »

Well Mesu, at least your honest about the issue.  Rather than debate your country without borders ideas I'd say this.  Bush, Kennedy, Graham, Lott and company happen to agree with you.  They, however,  give a bunch of lip service to securing the border in order to take the country to the place you'd like to see it end up.  You're honest.  They are definitely not.
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