Palestine college student protest megathread

[HisGrace]

If after six months of indiscriminately bombing a region with one of the highest population densities in the world and Israel has only killed 34,000 people then either the Israeli military sucks or they're not indiscriminately bombing people.

Well, on October 7th Hamas terrorists killed around 400 "legitimate targets" and 800 civilians and this was generally recognized as a brutal act of terror. In contrast, the most charitable estimate of the IDF's civilian-terrorist casualty ratio using their own numbers is no better than 2-1 and realistically is likely far worse than that.

So either the IDF are also terrorists or October 7th was actually a military operation conducted to the rigorous ethical standards of the "world's most moral army". The only real difference in conduct at this point is the scale of the brutality, and that point doesn't favour the IDF.

The difference is that Hamas started the conflict and is thus the aggressor. None of this would be happening if Hamas cared more about the wellbeing of Palestinians than killing Jews. The US and British inflicted 30x the number of civilian casualties on the Germany and Japan than what they took, never once in my life heard anyone suggest that was unjustified because the Axis started the war. The person who hits second doesn't have to be proportionate.

Hamas only "started the conflict" in the sense that prior to October 7th there was no "conflict", the Israelis killed Palestinians in a one sided manner and nobody cared. Calling them "the aggressor" and drawing comparisons to WW2 is a bit like calling the Lakota Sioux "the aggressor" because of Little Bighorn and then justifying WW2 levels of devastation against them. If we're going to use WW2 as the standard then Hamas is hardly any worse than the Soviets in East Prussia, certainly nowhere near the level of brutality of the Nazis or Japanese. But WW2 is not the standard, hence why nearly all of the countries that have started wars since WW2 haven't been obliterated the way Germany and Japan were and you have to reach back almost a hundred years to find a comparison that doesn't make the IDF look like murderous war criminals.

Also, I notice that people who use this "the person who gets hit second doesn't have to be proportionate" logic never apply it towards themselves. America hit Vietnam and Iraq first, would they have been justified in indiscriminately slaughtering American civilians with bombs? I thought Osama Bin Laden was a brutal terrorist but it turns out he was simply applying a disproportionate but justified response as the person who hits second.

There was no level where Hamas randomly killing and raping civilians could be considered "provoked" unless you're going to say Jews existing in their vicinity was provocation. Which you seem to be doing this with the Native American comparison despite Jews living in the region unceasingly for thousands of years, as long as Arabs have been there.

WWII was the chosen comparison because it's the most extreme and highlights the ridiculousness of the "Israel killed civilians so therefore they're the wrong side of the war" argument that seems to be the full extent of most of the left's thoughts on this. The civilian casualties in Gaza are completely within the realm of "normal" for what you would expect in a modern war in an area with that high population density. If Israel wanted to commit a "genocide" in Gaza they could do it inside of an hour and not have to go to all this trouble.

If the US government went out of its way to start a war with a country capable of launching a strike on US soil I would be mad at our own government for being dumb enough to do that. As for Bin Laden his list of demands for the US included no longer "letting" women have jobs and "removing" every gay person in the country so I'm not sure why his not being able to dictate another country's domestic policy is a legitimate reason to start a conflict. He should have been thanking us for helping chase the Soviets out in fact.

[Lief 🗽]

Not usually a fan of Time magazine but this photo really sums up the protests well: a woman flashing a “peace” sign while dressed up as a terrorist.

[GoTfan]

Not usually a fan of Time magazine but this photo really sums up the protests well: a woman flashing a “peace” sign while dressed up as a terrorist.

By assuming that everyone who wears a keffiyah is a terrorist, you're directly spreading anti-Muslim hatred.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Not usually a fan of Time magazine but this photo really sums up the protests well: a woman flashing a “peace” sign while dressed up as a terrorist.

By assuming that everyone who wears a keffiyah is a terrorist, you're directly spreading anti-Muslim hatred.

That is definitely not how a keffiyah is typically worn - it's being used to evoke Hamas here.

[Brittain33]

Not usually a fan of Time magazine but this photo really sums up the protests well: a woman flashing a “peace” sign while dressed up as a terrorist.

By assuming that everyone who wears a keffiyah is a terrorist, you're directly spreading anti-Muslim hatred.

He may be thinking about her covering her face to avoid recognition, something Hamas does too. Lots of people wear keffiyehs without doing that.

[GoTfan]

Not usually a fan of Time magazine but this photo really sums up the protests well: a woman flashing a “peace” sign while dressed up as a terrorist.

By assuming that everyone who wears a keffiyah is a terrorist, you're directly spreading anti-Muslim hatred.

That is definitely not how a keffiyah is typically worn - it's being used to evoke Hamas here.

Which still does not erase my point.

[Beet]

A lot of the protesters are covering their faces due to the McCarthyist atmosphere in America today. Assuming it's to evoke Hamas is pure bigotry.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Not usually a fan of Time magazine but this photo really sums up the protests well: a woman flashing a “peace” sign while dressed up as a terrorist.

By assuming that everyone who wears a keffiyah is a terrorist, you're directly spreading anti-Muslim hatred.

That is definitely not how a keffiyah is typically worn - it's being used to evoke Hamas here.

Which still does not erase my point.

I mean it kind of does, I think.  The point is that this is very much not how a keffiyah is typically worn, but very much a style adopted by groups like Hamas.  No one is even saying everyone who wears one in that manner is a terrorist (I certainly don’t believe that).  However, he is saying that - and I do agree with this - that in the context of the current situation, the folks in that picture (and I’d argue most folks at the college protests wearing them in that manner) are deliberately doing so to evoke Hamas imagery as a show of solidarity with Hamas and as part of the whole LARPing as Hamas “freedom fighters” thing.  

Admittedly there is a somewhat more generous interpretation that is also reasonable enough: that these are just dumb kids who have no idea what they’re talking about (how else can one explain signs like “LGBTQ for Hamas”) and don’t even know what a keffiyah is (much less how it is typically worn) and simply have some vague idea that wearing a keffiyah that way is a Palestinian thing because they saw a picture of a Hamas fighter doing so on the internet or something.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

A lot of the protesters are covering their faces due to the McCarthyist atmosphere in America today. Assuming it's to evoke Hamas is pure bigotry.

McCarthyist is when hate crime prosecutions for terrorizing Jews.

[MyLifeIsYours]

A lot of the protesters are covering their faces due to the McCarthyist atmosphere in America today. Assuming it's to evoke Hamas is pure bigotry.

McCarthyist is when hate crime prosecutions for terrorizing Jews.

Such as calling Jewish protestors "self-hating" and arresting a Jewish professor for protesting peacefully with fellow students.

[HisGrace]

The above discussion is like someone showing up to a white nationalist rally in a Nazi style brown shirt or with a white sheet and people being like "Well people wear brown shirts or white hoods for other reasons, I'm going to need more information here". Context matters guys. It looks like an entire crowd of student protestors wearing the same thing the overwhelming majority of whom I'm going to guess are not from the middle east so whether it's a normal thing to wear in the ME is not the point.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Not usually a fan of Time magazine but this photo really sums up the protests well: a woman flashing a “peace” sign while dressed up as a terrorist.

By assuming that everyone who wears a keffiyah is a terrorist, you're directly spreading anti-Muslim hatred.

That is definitely not how a keffiyah is typically worn - it's being used to evoke Hamas here.

Which still does not erase my point.

Your point is ridiculous.  These demonstrators are, at a minimum, allies of Hamas, if not actual Hamas members.  They are sending a message to America:  "Hamas is HERE!".  "Intifada is HERE!".  It's posing, and it's posing to deliberately inspire fear.

If these demonstrations were about "winning hearts and minds", they are certainly going about it the wrong way.  But they're not; they're using tactics of naked intimidation that are consistent with Hamas, whom some demonstrators have openly announced their support for.  And, as Ray Goldfield says, the use of the keffiyeh here is PLAINLY used to evoke Hamas.  

As to "Islamophobic":  Hamas is not only a designated terrorist organizations; it is a Jihadic organization as well.  The presence of Jews in "Palestine" is unacceptable to them, and any Palestinian State where Hamas was allowed to be active in would be a state where open Jihadists would be tolerated, if not overtly encouraged.  Now a lot of today's demonstrators are either unaware, or in denial of the Jihadic nature of Hamas, which is the actual governing authority of Gaza.  When members of such a terrorist and Jihadist group declare an Intifada on Israel (which means Jews) and on America, there is something to be phobic (afraid) of.  The suggestion that people don't; that it's all "Islamophobia" is ill-intentioned Gaslighting.

[Lief 🗽]

Not usually a fan of Time magazine but this photo really sums up the protests well: a woman flashing a “peace” sign while dressed up as a terrorist.

By assuming that everyone who wears a keffiyah is a terrorist, you're directly spreading anti-Muslim hatred.

What a ridiculous thing to say. 99.999% of Muslims don’t dress like this (it’s not even a Muslim garment, it’s an Arab one, no one wears keffiyehs in Iran or Indonesia or wherever). This is a costume. Some do it out of a bizarre orientalist desire to show solidarity with Palestinians (like if people showed up to protests against Russia’s invasion of Ukraine wearing vyshyvankas they bought on Amazon). I would guess that most do it because they want to “globalize the intifada,” and dress like this to terrorize and intimidate.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Your point is ridiculous.  These demonstrators are, at a minimum, allies of Hamas, if not actual Hamas members.  They are sending a message to America:  "Hamas is HERE!".  "Intifada is HERE!".  It's posing, and it's posing to deliberately inspire fear.

Without commenting on the larger argument here the idea that college students in the US are "Hamas members" is really, really absurd.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Your point is ridiculous.  These demonstrators are, at a minimum, allies of Hamas, if not actual Hamas members.  They are sending a message to America:  "Hamas is HERE!".  "Intifada is HERE!".  It's posing, and it's posing to deliberately inspire fear.

Without commenting on the larger argument here the idea that college students in the US are "Hamas members" is really, really absurd.

Yeah I disagree with that . Saying though they are useful idiots for Islamists is completely correct though

[T'Chenka]

Your point is ridiculous.  These demonstrators are, at a minimum, allies of Hamas, if not actual Hamas members.  They are sending a message to America:  "Hamas is HERE!".  "Intifada is HERE!".  It's posing, and it's posing to deliberately inspire fear.

Amazing to see you never give people that are "on the other side" the benefit of the doubt, but then hand-waive away the Jan 06 people with the guillotine that wanted to execute Mike Pence. Absolutely amazing. As peenieweenie said, to call USA college kids Hamas members (or even allies) is excessive hyperbole. Don't worry though Fuzzy. I like free speech so I won't be reporting your post.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

The larger point: Cops literally go into these crowds of protesters with cameras, camera sticks, disguised cameras, etc. Before any crimes have been committed btw, just to gather as many faces and op-sec as possible.

That isn't even to mention the counterprotestors who love to spend their days doxxing anyone in, near or supporting an encampment or protesters.

The picture looks like three people, with the crowd blurred in the back and a guy filming them. Obviously Times has edited it for a more 'evocative' feel, almost revolutionary, but ignoring the above context is what leads to the above takes I think.

In 2020 most protesters wore Covid masks, for obvious reasons, but that was also quite convenient for protecting ones identity, too. American police are thuggish goons and depending on the situation it can absolutely be necessary to conceal your identity, even if you've done nothing wrong or crossed no lines, to protect yourself.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Your point is ridiculous.  These demonstrators are, at a minimum, allies of Hamas, if not actual Hamas members.  They are sending a message to America:  "Hamas is HERE!".  "Intifada is HERE!".  It's posing, and it's posing to deliberately inspire fear.

Without commenting on the larger argument here the idea that college students in the US are "Hamas members" is really, really absurd.

True enough.  But not all of the demonstrators on campus are college students.  Hamas wouldn't have a lot of those kids, and a lot of those kids would be horrified if they were to find out from actual Hamas members who and what they're "partnering with".

I will agree with the idea that many of these uninformed and immature young adults (and the demonstrators are both of these; I won't take that back.) know how they're dressing, and what they're saying, but I don't know that they fully understand what they're DOING at a number of levels. I certainly regret stupid things I did in my youth and young adulthood.  I don't despise the misinformed students.  I do despise the professional protestors and agitators that are driving a good deal of the violence here, and my contempt for the organizations that are funding this turmoil is contempt is significant and fully deserved.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Your point is ridiculous.  These demonstrators are, at a minimum, allies of Hamas, if not actual Hamas members.  They are sending a message to America:  "Hamas is HERE!".  "Intifada is HERE!".  It's posing, and it's posing to deliberately inspire fear.

Without commenting on the larger argument here the idea that college students in the US are "Hamas members" is really, really absurd.

Yeah I disagree with that . Saying though they are useful idiots for Islamists is completely correct though

There have been people who have said these exact things, however. 

Is Hamas actually here?  Is an Intifada on America underway?  Not all of these protesters are students; some are clearly outside agitators who do this as a way of life, and this has already been established.  It may be nothing more than a "Boo!" game, but "Boo!" games are designed to intimidate and frighten.  There should be no question that the intent of many in these protests (including those who are driving these protests) is to intimidate and frighten, and the intimidation and frightening is intended to go beyond scaring Democrats into believing that Michigan goes for Trump while Dearborn votes for 3rd party candidates.

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/sfmcguire79/status/1789833730653098036

I'll give credit a 10 day hunger strike is better than intermittent fasting but still lol.

[Brittain33]

Respect for fasting for 10 days but I think these students are demonstrating the limits of this tactic if you’re not willing to actually be hospitalized or die. Bobby Sands had health concerns, too.

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/TheFIREorg/status/1790471930488750514

As I said earlier Texas is being disgusting on free speech and needs to be sued for what they are doing.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://twitter.com/TheFIREorg/status/1790471930488750514

Barring people from speaking in Arabic?
Ghabi...

[Brittain33]

Is there any verification the university “banned student protestors from speaking in Arabic”? That’s wild but all I see is this claim about it

[lfromnj]

Is there any verification the university “banned student protestors from speaking in Arabic”? That’s wild but all I see is this claim about it

Could have just been claims. I give TX very little benefit of the doubt after they said anti-semitic speech should be banned.