$7.00 Minimum Wage????

[John Dibble]

Not a good idea. It might help SOME of the poor, but the ones that lose their jobs won't be so happy. Most employers pay more than minimum wage anyways. When I worked at Burger King, everyone got $6.50 to start. When I worked at a movie theater, I got $6.00 to start and getting a raise was easy when I advance in experience. Hardly necessary.

[John Dibble]

But you must consider this. The minimum wage as it was in the late sixties would be $8.17 today adjusted for inflation and small business was surviving.

Then the minimum wage ought to be raised to $8.17.

Not necessarily - how has the cost of buying the basic necessities changed based on inflation?

[John Dibble]

how has the cost of buying the basic necessities changed based on inflation?

Uh, that's what inflation is. It's an increase in cost.

It's also a decrease in the value in money. It's a combination of both really. One could go higher than the other(making something cheaper doesn't necessarily decrease inflation).

[John Dibble]

Eh, I don't understand why people insist on promoting policies that result in putting small businesses out of business.

Also, every economic report you hear touts the huge increases in the productivity of workers.  If workers have become so productive, why aren't they being paid more?  All the economic benefits of productivity are just going to corporate profits and consumer prices, not to the workers where they belong.

Actually, workers are paid more. As productivity increases wages increase, because the work becomes more valuable - it's a simple economic concept. Now, what you don't mention is whether this is an increase in the output of unskilled laborers(who are most likely to be paid minimum wage) or skilled workers - skilled workers make more use of modern technology, which sometimes requires skill, than unskilled laborers. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, om 1980 men with only high school education earned  an average of $36,430* anually, while male college graduates earned $52,492. In 2000, high school education men earned $36,770 and male college grads earned $69,421. What happened in that time frame? Computers happened, and the demand for skilled labor skyrocketed, so wages increased for skilled labor. If the productivity had increased for unskilled labor, the value of that labor would increase and wages would increase. People are paid for what their job is worth, plain and simple - if you are paid minimum wage, your job isn't worth much.

*Note - data adjusted for inflation and is in 2000 dollars.

[John Dibble]

If you don't like how the capitalist system works, move to a communist country. People are paid for the value of their labor.

And think about it - has the productivity of the unskilled worker REALLY increased? In some areas, with automation, certainly(however, with automation workers require skills to operate machinary, so they could be classified as skilled workers), but what about those areas not as affected by automation. Is the average worker at Burger King or McDonald's really more productive than 20 years ago? Doubtful. How about if you work at a supermarket, does automation really affect you that much? Or if you are a cashier? Or any number of unskilled jobs that still haven't become automated? I'm sure you'll find in automated jobs that wages may have indeed increased. Minimum wage forces companies to pay more than a job is worth - since inflation has occurred and an increase in minimum wage has not, the average unskilled wage has come back closer to the efficient equilibrium wage.

[John Dibble]

I don't think any politician actually wants to stop poor people from making money.

Apparently you've never heard of Newtzi "The Nazi" Gingrich, "Dirty Dick" Armey, "Phascist Phil" Gramm, "Toilet Tommy" Thompson, and George Dumbya Bush. Scuzzbags they are.

Ok, regardless of me not liking any of the mentioned politicians that I've heard of, what exactly have they done to intentionally keep poor people poor?

[John Dibble]

Ok, regardless of me not liking any of the mentioned politicians that I've heard of, what exactly have they done to intentionally keep poor people poor?

Remember all that Contract With America garbage?

Nope. Never heard of it. Haven't been politically active that long(only happened when I became libertarian and had something I could actually believe in), but looking it up I found this:

http://www.house.gov/house/Contract/CONTRACT.html

So what part of it do you have a problem with?

[John Dibble]

Most manufacturing jobs already pay more than $7.00 per hour but raising the minimum wage will probably drive all wages up accordingly. Thanks to NAFTA and GATT american companies have to compete with 2 buck an hour labor in Mexico and buck an hour labor in China. How will raising the wage make us more competitive?

Aren't libertarians radically in favor of free trade?

Free trade with minimal government intervention, yes. Forcing a wage increase would make manufacturing in other countries(with cheaper labor) more lucrative. Though the labor here may have cost more to start with, the savings on shipping may have prevented companies from moving their manufacture elsewhere. But with a wage increase, labor becomes more expensive, and thusly saving on labor rather than shipping may be more profitable, so thusly companies move the jobs out of country. Since the U.S. is the biggest consumber of goods, sometimes it makes sense to manufacture here, but if labor costs offset the savings on shipping the demand to manufacture here rather than elsewhere plummets, effectively cutting us out of the competition for the manufacturing job pie. Libertarians would rather the market do it's own work, which would likely be more beneficial to the country, since more manufacturing jobs would stay here.

[John Dibble]

David - you just proved why you can't have free trade with heavy government regulation. With government regulation it isn't free trade at all.

[John Dibble]

Another good point, David. It comes down to something I was discussing in another thread - you can't have instant transitions. If you wanted to move to a new style of government, you have to do it over time. All at once will cause harm.

Taxes on imports - sometimes good, sometimes bad, depends on what it is on. I would prefer there be no tariff on imported cane sugar, for instance(to replace high fructose corn syrup in soft drinks, considering how much we drink: high amounts of fructose can screw up your metabolism and increase your risk for obesity, so regular sugar is preferable to the stuff we use now, but it costs more than it would otherwise so it's more profitable to use hfcs). On other things(cars, perhaps), I wouldn't mind so much.