Is admiring Sen. McCarthy very Libertarian?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'd say no.

[Sensei]

No for 500, Alex.

[Verily]

How about you just put a poll up asking if DWTL is a libertarian or not, and we can get one vote in favor to everyone else opposed, and then the discussion will be over?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm pretty sure we've already had one. Just hammering out the reasons why here.

[DownWithTheLeft]

My love of Sen. Joseph McCarthy is rooted a hatred of the greatest enemy of libertarians, communism.  Therefore, admiring Joseph McCarthy is very libertarian.  Some of his principles were contrary, but his message of kill the reds was right in step with that philosophy.

[Sensei]

I think he's just trying too hard.

[John Dibble]

My love of Sen. Joseph McCarthy is rooted a hatred of the greatest enemy of libertarians, communism.  Therefore, admiring Joseph McCarthy is very libertarian.  Some of his principles were contrary, but his message of kill the reds was right in step with that philosophy.

The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. Communism may be a horrid ideology that is in bleak contrast to the ideals of libertarianism, but if someone who opposes communism holds a horrid ideology themselves they can't exactly be called libertarian. For instance fascists during the WWII era were opposed to communism, but fascists could hardly be called libertarians - in fact fascism, which emphasizes the state above all else, has more in common with the communism to which it was against! But by your logic we should admire the fascists simply due to their opposition to communism, ignoring all other factors regardless of what they may be.

[bullmoose88]

...his message of kill the reds was right in step with that philosophy.

bzzt. wrong. try again.

[DanielX]

Not at all.

Is hating communism libertarian? Yes. I hate communism myself, and I'm only kind-of a libertarian. I know that Dibble, Cereal, and all the various libertarians, semi-libertarians, and so forth don't like communism much, either.

However, Joseph McCarthy was an asshole. He produced a 'list' of Communists. There were a handful of communists on the list. There were also fascists; there were socialists and others (I bet there'd be a few libertarians if the party existed at the time). Then, there were some homosexuals on the list (Irony; McCarthy was  almost certainly either gay or bi - chew on that, DWTL), and others in various categories that are not communist or fascist. He also accused innocent people of being communist.

His attacks were often so off-base that even Dwight Eisenhower and Richard Nixon, both anti-communist warriors, told him to stuff it.

Aside from which, being a communist at some point does not imply being an agent for Moscow or Beijing. A true libertarian would make sure there was evidence of actual treason before accusing someone of being a spy, and bringing it before an impartial court of law. Not by maintaining a list of supposed 'subversives' and trying to ruin their lives without legal recourse- that behavior does not befit a democratic state.

This has nothing to do with the Rosenbergs (certainly guilty, convicted before McCarthy really got started), or HUAC (founded 1944, originally to ferret out fascists). Just McCarthy.

[Gabu]

My love of Sen. Joseph McCarthy is rooted a hatred of the greatest enemy of libertarians, communism.  Therefore, admiring Joseph McCarthy is very libertarian.  Some of his principles were contrary, but his message of kill the reds was right in step with that philosophy.

Uh, no.  Libertarians would say to communists, "We disagree with your ideology and will fight to oppose it in government, but we will fight to the death to defend your right to hold it."  Libertarians would not have gone on ridiculous witch hunts under the presumption that anyone having communist sympathies is evil and must be eliminated.

[Dr. Cynic]

It's one thing to hate communisim. It's another thing to start a witch hunt wildly accusing people of being sympathetic to those views when they weren't.

McCarthy, and his buddy Jenner, were human trash. No Libertarian, Liberal, or honest Conservative would do such a thing. Only a fascist with an inferiority complex. As President Eisenhower bluntly put it, "I'm not getting down in the gutter with that guy!"

I would think if you wanted any respect on the outside world, one would take Ike's advice.

[Smash255]

My love of Sen. Joseph McCarthy is rooted a hatred of the greatest enemy of libertarians, communism.  Therefore, admiring Joseph McCarthy is very libertarian.  Some of his principles were contrary, but his message of kill the reds was right in step with that philosophy.

Uh, no.  Libertarians would say to communists, "We disagree with your ideology and will fight to oppose it in government, but we will fight to the death to defend your right to hold it."  Libertarians would not have gone on ridiculous witch hunts under the presumption that anyone having communist sympathies is evil and must be eliminated.

^^^^^^^^^

[AkSaber]

Uh..... I've never thought so.

[TheWildCard]

No for 500, Alex.

Oh I'm sorry but you must answer in the form of a question.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Admiring Sen. McCarthy... ah ha.

The alcoholic, who while persecuting people with views different than his own for personal political gain, was getting money from the Soviets.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Better for you?  I could make my name anything, and obviously I'm not going to convince a lot of people I am a Libertarian, but that's fine with me I think I know my own ideology better than you all do.

[??????????]

The alcoholic, who while persecuting people with views different than his own for personal political gain, was getting money from the Soviets.

Proof? From a non-leftist source of course.

And I love how DanielX continues to spout the tired anti-McCarthy tripe that I'm sure his parents were fed by the hippies/American hating leftists of the "great" '60s.

McCarthy was perhaps one of the greatest patriots of the 20th century and perhaps in American history. I, of course, applaud all of his actions in the senate, including his blacklists, communist hunts and hearings.

[DanielX]

Uh, States.... my father spent 3 years in the IDF (and fought in the Six Day War) and my mother's a lifelong Republican - neither were particularly hippy when they grew up in the 60s. I, myself, am no leftist or apologist for communism. In fact, I'm as much of an anti-communist as anyone. I just recognize that being against the evil that is communism is not an excuse for practicing other evils.

I'm personally of the opinion that McCarthy was a communist agent, sent to discredit anti-communism. He was a complete and utter bastard.

[??????????]

I'm personally of the opinion that McCarthy was a communist agent, sent to discredit anti-communism. He was a complete and utter bastard.

lolz

[John Dibble]

Better for you?  I could make my name anything, and obviously I'm not going to convince a lot of people I am a Libertarian, but that's fine with me I think I know my own ideology better than you all do.

You may know what the tenets of your ideology are better than us, but that doesn't mean we'll agree with you when you try to redefine what an ideology means just to suit your tastes.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The alcoholic, who while persecuting people with views different than his own for personal political gain, was getting money from the Soviets.

Proof? From a non-leftist source of course.

And I love how DanielX continues to spout the tired anti-McCarthy tripe that I'm sure his parents were fed by the hippies/American hating leftists of the "great" '60s.

McCarthy was perhaps one of the greatest patriots of the 20th century and perhaps in American history. I, of course, applaud all of his actions in the senate, including his blacklists, communist hunts and hearings.

How many actual communists did he discover?

[skybridge]

My love of Sen. Joseph McCarthy is rooted a hatred of the greatest enemy of libertarians, communism.  Therefore, admiring Joseph McCarthy is very libertarian.  Some of his principles were contrary, but his message of kill the reds was right in step with that philosophy.

I thought libertarianism was non-interventionist...

[MaC]

Better for you?  I could make my name anything, and obviously I'm not going to convince a lot of people I am a Libertarian, but that's fine with me I think I know my own ideology better than you all do.

You may know what the tenets of your ideology are better than us, but that doesn't mean we'll agree with you when you try to redefine what an ideology means just to suit your tastes.

lol at the man who says we have to re-write the platform to fit the extreme moderates

As for the question, no but he was anti anti libertarian.

[John Dibble]

Better for you?  I could make my name anything, and obviously I'm not going to convince a lot of people I am a Libertarian, but that's fine with me I think I know my own ideology better than you all do.

You may know what the tenets of your ideology are better than us, but that doesn't mean we'll agree with you when you try to redefine what an ideology means just to suit your tastes.

lol at the man who says we have to re-write the platform to fit the extreme moderates

"Extreme moderates"? Isn't that a contradiction of terms? As far as I'm concerned, there's a big difference between moderate libertarianism and what DWTL believes - no libertarian of any persuasion would believe in something like "Christian Supremacy", or do you disagree?

[MaC]

Better for you?  I could make my name anything, and obviously I'm not going to convince a lot of people I am a Libertarian, but that's fine with me I think I know my own ideology better than you all do.

You may know what the tenets of your ideology are better than us, but that doesn't mean we'll agree with you when you try to redefine what an ideology means just to suit your tastes.

lol at the man who says we have to re-write the platform to fit the extreme moderates

"Extreme moderates"? Isn't that a contradiction of terms? As far as I'm concerned, there's a big difference between moderate libertarianism and what DWTL believes - no libertarian of any persuasion would believe in something like "Christian Supremacy", or do you disagree?

I said that to draw attention basically.  Dwdl may be downright stupid, but aside from a few pet issues, I would call him libertarian.  I wouldn't call you libertarian though.  You think that some interventionism is alright.  You're blame is in the wrong area: idiots are not the problem, government is.  You've not said much in support of the Ron Paul campaign...

I mean Bacon King understood something and changed his avatar...