SiCKO

[Verily]

Haven't seen the movie, and don't really plan to. Michael Moore isn't exactly the guy to go to for a completely accurate documentary. I did read one review that made some quite good points - while Moore does a good job of pointing out problems in our system (though often cherry picked exceptional cases rather than general ones) he doesn't give any problems that happen in countries with universal health care. Take for instance that in Canada dogs can get a hip replacement in a week, but for humans it might take months or even years. Like most things Moore makes, all indications are that it's almost completely one sided.

The point that's often missed is that in most universal health care countries (Britain being the only exception I know of), you are free to pay for your own elective health care and receive more prompt service if you so desire. This is basically the same as the US system, except, if you can't pay for the expensive hip replacement, you'll be able to get one anyway, just slower.

The movie was decent. I tend to agree with reviews that it could have made the same point without some of the omissions although detailed explanations would really just confuse most moviegoers. It certainly showed the myriad failings of our system well. Bowling for Columbine was better, but this one is much better than Fahrenheit 9/11.

No, Britain is a two-tier system too. The exception you're thinking off is Canada. However, most liberals are proposing a Canada-like single payer system, not a two-tier system.

Hmmm?

To quote Wikipedia:

"Many Canadians have private health insurance..."

I want to trash Micheal Moore and/or the concept of universal free health care. 

That yellow avatar looks unhealthy, perhaps you should seek medical advice.

Fine, but to be fair to you, I shall pay for the treatment all by myself.  Without your tax money.

obviously the solution to the health care crisis is for everyone to get a job at mcdonalds.  then theyd have no problem paying for health care!

and by the way mac, why should the taxpayers of michigan help pay for your education?  since you are obviously opposed to these things.

Did you see the Joe Lieberman thread? MaC thinks public education is a far-left program.

[Bono]

Haven't seen the movie, and don't really plan to. Michael Moore isn't exactly the guy to go to for a completely accurate documentary. I did read one review that made some quite good points - while Moore does a good job of pointing out problems in our system (though often cherry picked exceptional cases rather than general ones) he doesn't give any problems that happen in countries with universal health care. Take for instance that in Canada dogs can get a hip replacement in a week, but for humans it might take months or even years. Like most things Moore makes, all indications are that it's almost completely one sided.

The point that's often missed is that in most universal health care countries (Britain being the only exception I know of), you are free to pay for your own elective health care and receive more prompt service if you so desire. This is basically the same as the US system, except, if you can't pay for the expensive hip replacement, you'll be able to get one anyway, just slower.

The movie was decent. I tend to agree with reviews that it could have made the same point without some of the omissions although detailed explanations would really just confuse most moviegoers. It certainly showed the myriad failings of our system well. Bowling for Columbine was better, but this one is much better than Fahrenheit 9/11.

No, Britain is a two-tier system too. The exception you're thinking off is Canada. However, most liberals are proposing a Canada-like single payer system, not a two-tier system.

Hmmm?

To quote Wikipedia:

"Many Canadians have private health insurance..."

To cover things Medicare doesn't cover. It's illegal to have private insurance covering things Medicare covers, except on Quebec.

[Conan]

Anyway, do you plan on taking social security when you are older?

Even if he did, so what? Isn't he paying taxes towards it? In the outlandish possibility that the system isn't in bankruptcy by the time he reaches old age, he'd be just getting a bit back from what they took from him.

Read the whole post. He won't be taking his money. It will be somone elses by the time he will need it.

[7,052,770]

I definitely want to see this movie; I hope they show it here.

I assume they will since they showed Fahrenheit 9/11 and An Inconvenient Truth, but you never know...

[The Man From G.O.P.]

I hope to see it soon.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I could care less if you don't have health care.  Would I like you to? Of course, but if you don't not my problem.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I could care less if you don't have health care.  Would I like you to? Of course, but if you don't not my problem.

Communicable diseases very quickly become your problem.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I could care less if you don't have health care.  Would I like you to? Of course, but if you don't not my problem.

Communicable diseases very quickly become your problem.

Cannot say I have ever been effected by something that horrible, and anything that bad I go to my doctor he gives me some good medicine I give my $15 co-pay and in a day or two I feel better.

My biggest problem with UHC is that the government sucks and wastes money and there is no way that UHC would not just be another complicated, abused, and overfunded government program.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I could care less if you don't have health care.  Would I like you to? Of course, but if you don't not my problem.

Communicable diseases very quickly become your problem.

Cannot say I have ever been effected by something that horrible, and anything that bad I go to my doctor he gives me some good medicine I give my $15 co-pay and in a day or two I feel better.

My biggest problem with UHC is that the government sucks and wastes money and there is no way that UHC would not just be another complicated, abused, and overfunded government program.

And you don't think the current system is complicated, abused, and inefficient.  Ever been to a hospital emergency room in a major city?

[Bono]

I could care less if you don't have health care.  Would I like you to? Of course, but if you don't not my problem.

Communicable diseases very quickly become your problem.

Cannot say I have ever been effected by something that horrible, and anything that bad I go to my doctor he gives me some good medicine I give my $15 co-pay and in a day or two I feel better.

My biggest problem with UHC is that the government sucks and wastes money and there is no way that UHC would not just be another complicated, abused, and overfunded government program.

And you don't think the current system is complicated, abused, and inefficient.  Ever been to a hospital emergency room in a major city?

Ever been to a hospital emergency room in a country with socialized medicine?

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I could care less if you don't have health care.  Would I like you to? Of course, but if you don't not my problem.

Communicable diseases very quickly become your problem.

Cannot say I have ever been effected by something that horrible, and anything that bad I go to my doctor he gives me some good medicine I give my $15 co-pay and in a day or two I feel better.

My biggest problem with UHC is that the government sucks and wastes money and there is no way that UHC would not just be another complicated, abused, and overfunded government program.

And you don't think the current system is complicated, abused, and inefficient.  Ever been to a hospital emergency room in a major city?

Ever been to a hospital emergency room in a country with socialized medicine?

I live in a state with what is essentially socialized medicine.

[??????????]

And I live in a state where at least 1/3 of the population is living dead. ha

[Bono]

I could care less if you don't have health care.  Would I like you to? Of course, but if you don't not my problem.

Communicable diseases very quickly become your problem.

Cannot say I have ever been effected by something that horrible, and anything that bad I go to my doctor he gives me some good medicine I give my $15 co-pay and in a day or two I feel better.

My biggest problem with UHC is that the government sucks and wastes money and there is no way that UHC would not just be another complicated, abused, and overfunded government program.

And you don't think the current system is complicated, abused, and inefficient.  Ever been to a hospital emergency room in a major city?

Ever been to a hospital emergency room in a country with socialized medicine?

I live in a state with what is essentially socialized medicine.

Well I live in a country with what is really socialized medicine, and let me tell you it's got nothing on that. Even today, a Ministry of Health study came out saying the average waiting time for a cancer patient to get surgery to remove the cancer was three and a half months, reaching seven months in some cases.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Well I live in a country with what is really socialized medicine, and let me tell you it's got nothing on that. Even today, a Ministry of Health study came out saying the average waiting time for a cancer patient to get surgery to remove the cancer was three and a half months, reaching seven months in some cases.

On the whole, I'd prefer people have to wait for surgery than to never get it in the first place.

[??????????]

Well I live in a country with what is really socialized medicine, and let me tell you it's got nothing on that. Even today, a Ministry of Health study came out saying the average waiting time for a cancer patient to get surgery to remove the cancer was three and a half months, reaching seven months in some cases.

On the whole, I'd prefer people have to wait for surgery than to never get it in the first place.

Hospitals don't turn anyone down.

[WalterMitty]

Well I live in a country with what is really socialized medicine, and let me tell you it's got nothing on that. Even today, a Ministry of Health study came out saying the average waiting time for a cancer patient to get surgery to remove the cancer was three and a half months, reaching seven months in some cases.

On the whole, I'd prefer people have to wait for surgery than to never get it in the first place.

Hospitals don't turn anyone down.

no.  but if you are uninsured and have to spend any length of time in the hospital....it means....financial ruin.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Well I live in a country with what is really socialized medicine, and let me tell you it's got nothing on that. Even today, a Ministry of Health study came out saying the average waiting time for a cancer patient to get surgery to remove the cancer was three and a half months, reaching seven months in some cases.

On the whole, I'd prefer people have to wait for surgery than to never get it in the first place.

Hospitals don't turn anyone down.

no.  but if you are uninsured and have to spend any length of time in the hospital....it means....financial ruin.

O well, should have gotten a job with better benefits

[Verily]

Well I live in a country with what is really socialized medicine, and let me tell you it's got nothing on that. Even today, a Ministry of Health study came out saying the average waiting time for a cancer patient to get surgery to remove the cancer was three and a half months, reaching seven months in some cases.

On the whole, I'd prefer people have to wait for surgery than to never get it in the first place.

Hospitals don't turn anyone down.

no.  but if you are uninsured and have to spend any length of time in the hospital....it means....financial ruin.

O well, should have gotten a job with better benefits

And we should all take employment advice from a kid who really doesn't understand how difficult it can be even for a highly qualified person to get a job, especially after quitting a previous job. Companies aren't going to hire you if you say, "I quit my job because it had poor health coverage, but you have good health coverage." They don't want to pay for you.

[??????????]

No, but most people these days work at the places they do to receive better benefits. The company I work for promotes their benefits as a great positive to working there, even over their pay rates.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

And we should all take employment advice from a kid who really doesn't understand how difficult it can be even for a highly qualified person to get a job, especially after quitting a previous job. Companies aren't going to hire you if you say, "I quit my job because it had poor health coverage, but you have good health coverage." They don't want to pay for you.

If you have cancer and a bad job, you deserve to die!

[Tender Branson]

Well I live in a country with what is really socialized medicine, and let me tell you it's got nothing on that. Even today, a Ministry of Health study came out saying the average waiting time for a cancer patient to get surgery to remove the cancer was three and a half months, reaching seven months in some cases.

On the whole, I'd prefer people have to wait for surgery than to never get it in the first place.

Hospitals don't turn anyone down.

Yeah. But what is better ? Wait 3 months for cancer therapy (which I find rather extreme) and be insured, or let you treat uninsured and face debts of a trillion $s ?

I don´t know a lot of persons around me with cancer (thank goodness) but I can say that I googled a bit and can say that at least Salzburg State government did a good job in bringing down waiting periods and that cancer drugs are fastest to get for a cure in Austria, Switzerland and Spain, while slowest in the UK. Basically cancer treatment starts right away here.

[DownWithTheLeft]

And we should all take employment advice from a kid who really doesn't understand how difficult it can be even for a highly qualified person to get a job, especially after quitting a previous job. Companies aren't going to hire you if you say, "I quit my job because it had poor health coverage, but you have good health coverage." They don't want to pay for you.

If you have cancer and a bad job, you deserve to die!

I still fail to see why I should pay for a broken government system.  Does anyone really believe that socialized medicine would work?  I mean we've just had so much success with medicare and social security.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

And we should all take employment advice from a kid who really doesn't understand how difficult it can be even for a highly qualified person to get a job, especially after quitting a previous job. Companies aren't going to hire you if you say, "I quit my job because it had poor health coverage, but you have good health coverage." They don't want to pay for you.

If you have cancer and a bad job, you deserve to die!

I still fail to see why I should pay for a broken government system.  Does anyone really believe that socialized medicine would work?  I mean we've just had so much success with medicare and social security.

You can argue that "Social Security" could be run better, but even under its current form, I consider the program to be a tremendous success in keeping the rotting corpses of the bankrupted elderly from rotting in the streets.

[Verily]

And we should all take employment advice from a kid who really doesn't understand how difficult it can be even for a highly qualified person to get a job, especially after quitting a previous job. Companies aren't going to hire you if you say, "I quit my job because it had poor health coverage, but you have good health coverage." They don't want to pay for you.

If you have cancer and a bad job, you deserve to die!

I still fail to see why I should pay for a broken government system.  Does anyone really believe that socialized medicine would work?  I mean we've just had so much success with medicare and social security.

It's definitely worked better than our current system in, well, everywhere else.

[??????????]

And we should all take employment advice from a kid who really doesn't understand how difficult it can be even for a highly qualified person to get a job, especially after quitting a previous job. Companies aren't going to hire you if you say, "I quit my job because it had poor health coverage, but you have good health coverage." They don't want to pay for you.

If you have cancer and a bad job, you deserve to die!

I still fail to see why I should pay for a broken government system.  Does anyone really believe that socialized medicine would work?  I mean we've just had so much success with medicare and social security.

You can argue that "Social Security" could be run better, but even under its current form, I consider the program to be a tremendous success in keeping the rotting corpses of the bankrupted elderly from rotting in the streets.

Until it comes time for me to start receiving benefits, which in all likelihood won't happen. They'll raise the retirement age so high that very few will be able to attain a check.