Romney's New Ad

[So the Heroes Fall]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a heretical church based on lies and the false prophet Joseph Smith, and a complete perversion of the truth of Jesus Christ.

[poughies]

No but that doesn't mean he is immune from the same attacks of attempting in this ad to suggest in my opinion to threaten as Bush the separation between church and state....

Now, don't tell me any things from Massachusetts governor... he's a different politician.....

However like I said both Republicans and Democrats seem to be gunning for the value vote this time around although this as everyone knows totally overshadowed by the war in Iraq.

True though this a difference between speaking of value as poverty and equality... vs value of God this and God that... Look I god bless america, but jeez this stuff is getting insane.

But u are right on some level.

[Ebowed]

If you want to see real attacks on his religion though, how about the fact that Mormonism is a cult that was started by a drunken adulterer and lunatic who tricked people into thinking he could read Egyptian heiroglyphics from a bunch of tablets with special glasses that only he had access to?  Or the fact that the church he started makes decisions overturning their past polygamy, racism, and sexism only when suddenly politically expedient?

You see, his church is a complete fraud and sham, but again, what matters here is that he wants to legislate religious beliefs into public policy.

You have truly demonstrated your complete ignorance of and your unbridled prejudice toward The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, a church you so obviously know nothing about.

It is ignorance and attitudes like yours that perpetuate narrow minded bigotry in the 21st century.

You must be a direct descendant of some of the fanatics who presided at the Salem witch trials. 

Actually, as I said, I don't care that he's a Mormon.  You keep saying that Romney is the subject of prejudicial attacks and I provided you an example of a real attack.  But hey, why not.  You seem to think that religious institutions should be immune from criticism, so let's talk this out.  What did I say that was incorrect?  Prove me wrong.

I know nothing about the LDS?  Criticising a church's origins is tantamount to presiding over the Salem witch trials?  Those are some tall claims.  You ought to back them up.

By the way, it's interesting that you are not disputing that Romney himself is a bigot.  Presumably you agree with him that we need someone of faith to be the nation's commaner-in-chief... because an atheist or agnostic is incapable of doing the job.

[Conan]

Attack Romney all you want, I don't care.

Leave his religion out of it.

If he wants to suppress free speech based on what his religious says is objectionable, then it's completely fair game.

I don't care if, say, Harry Reid is a Mormon.  Great for him.

It is never "fair game" to attack anyone's church.  Rather, it is repugnant, no matter how you try to disguise it.

I suppose you whole heartedly support The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints then?

[Ebowed]

I suppose you whole heartedly support The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints then?

He thinks that anyone who opposes Romney because he's a Mormon is a bigot.

But, strangely, Mormons who support Romney solely because of his religion seem to be doing nothing wrong.

[Conan]

I suppose you whole heartedly support The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints then?

He thinks that anyone who opposes Romney because he's a Mormon is a bigot.

But, strangely, Mormons who support Romney solely because of his religion seem to be doing nothing wrong.

Yes, but I am speaking of The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[Ebowed]

I suppose you whole heartedly support The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints then?

He thinks that anyone who opposes Romney because he's a Mormon is a bigot.

But, strangely, Mormons who support Romney solely because of his religion seem to be doing nothing wrong.

Yes, but I am speaking of The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Yeah, I got that.

Mainstream Mormons hate the FLDS because they're an annoying reminder of some of their past practices.

[LINCOLN REPUBLICAN]

I will not be drawn into this type of an internet dialogue with individuals who are obviously predisposed to an already unenlightened stance and prejudicial attitude.

[Ebowed]

I will not be drawn into this type of an internet dialogue with individuals who are obviously predisposed to an already unenlightened stance and prejudicial attitude.

That's what we like to call dodging the bullet.

Tell me, though.  Are you willing to admit that Mitt Romney is a bigot against the non-religious?

[Conan]

I will not be drawn into this type of an internet dialogue with individuals who are obviously predisposed to an already unenlightened stance and prejudicial attitude.

You don't know what you are even talking about. And you dodged my question? Do you support the FLDS?

[The Duke]

Romney is a firm believer in the separation of church and state.   

Wants to supress free speech?  Nonsense.

From what objective and secular logic does he determine that pornography and allegedly violent or offensive TV shows should be censored?

That's right... he's proposing that we legislate his religious beliefs into government policy which affects everyone.  The ad clearly states that he wants to improve the culture of America based on his religious views.

If you want to see real attacks on his religion though, how about the fact that Mormonism is a cult that was started by a drunken adulterer and lunatic who tricked people into thinking he could read Egyptian heiroglyphics from a bunch of tablets with special glasses that only he had access to?  Or the fact that the church he started makes decisions overturning their past polygamy, racism, and sexism only when suddenly politically expedient?

You see, his church is a complete fraud and sham, but again, what matters here is that he wants to legislate religious beliefs into public policy.

The secular argument is that violence and sex in the media leads to kids becoming more violent and having more sex, and therefore we have a responsibility to regulate the amount of indecency in the culture.  This is a secular argument Romney is making.  His premise, that violence and sex on TV leads to kids having more sex and being more violent, is almost universally endorsed by experts in the field.  The American Psychiatric Association tells us that violent video games, TV shows, and movies lead to kids behaving violently.  Are the members of the American Psychiatric Association religious zealots also?  To say that the only argument in favor of regulating indecency is religious when the nation's premier mental health organization says there is perfectly secular reason for concern shows that you have no interest in engaging with the facts.

Not only is there a secular argument to be made here, the argument is hardly novel.  Ever hear of the Federal Communications Commission?

As for the rest of your post, it is plainly objectionable that you would attack Mitt Romney's faith by launching a proxy attack on the founders of his religion.  You know that you can't make a credible attack on Romney's own religious views, which are well inside the American mainstream, so you launch a broadside against Brigham Young and Joseph Smith hoping to succeed in playing a guilt by association game.  Its disgusting, frankly.

[LINCOLN REPUBLICAN]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a heretical church based on lies and the false prophet Joseph Smith, and a complete perversion of the truth of Jesus Christ.

Go spew your lies, bigotry, ignorance, and your venomous hatred on some hate site  where bigots like you have a good time getting together to perpetuate your sheer stupidity. 

[poughies]

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2007/07/in_a_nutshell.html

There's the point i was trying to make..... of course, it could be secular but it rarely if ever is the argument made in the way. And no u don't have to mention God in order to get the point across.....

[Likely Voter]

i do not believe that anyone who has issues with mormons is automatically a bigot. (some have issues with muslims others with catholics, etc) I believe that many voters will not be able to see past Romney's Mormonism, but does that mean that here on this forum we have to debate it for every Romney topic.

[Kevin]

i do not believe that anyone who has issues with mormons is automatically a bigot. (some have issues with muslims others with catholics, etc) I believe that many voters will not be able to see past Romney's Mormonism, but does that mean that here on this forum we have to debate it for every Romney topic.

America is a changing nation,People saw past Kennedy's Catholic faith and I think people will do the same with Romney.

[LINCOLN REPUBLICAN]

I will not be drawn into this type of an internet dialogue with individuals who are obviously predisposed to an already unenlightened stance and prejudicial attitude.

That's what we like to call dodging the bullet.

Tell me, though.  Are you willing to admit that Mitt Romney is a bigot against the non-religious?

Actually, it is called not wasting my time with an exercise in futility.

I do not wish to expend the effort of launching a cruise missile to flatten an ant hill.

Mitt Romney is not a bigot against the non-religious.  He simply has a firm conviction that strong moral values make for a strong nation.  Strong moral values will prevent the nation from decaying from within.

[Grad Students are the Worst]

Strong moral values will prevent the nation from decaying from within.

Just because you say it in a grandiloquent way doesn't really make it true...

[All life is a blur of Republicans and meat.]

I will not be drawn into this type of an internet dialogue with individuals who are obviously predisposed to an already unenlightened stance and prejudicial attitude.

That's what we like to call dodging the bullet.

Tell me, though.  Are you willing to admit that Mitt Romney is a bigot against the non-religious?

Actually, it is called not wasting my time with an exercise in futility.

I do not wish to expend the effort of launching a cruise missile to flatten an ant hill.

Mitt Romney is not a bigot against the non-religious.  He simply has a firm conviction that strong moral values make for a strong nation.  Strong moral values will prevent the nation from decaying from within.

So basically he doesn't like non-religious people but that doesn't make him a bigot towards them?

[Ebowed]

Mitt Romney is not a bigot against the non-religious.  He simply has a firm conviction that strong moral values make for a strong nation.  Strong moral values will prevent the nation from decaying from within.

He said that an atheist or agnostic should not be elected as President.  Are you saying that someone without the Christian faith does not have strong moral values?

America is a changing nation,People saw past Kennedy's Catholic faith and I think people will do the same with Romney.

Mitt Romney is closer to Al Smith than John Kennedy, in terms of this analogy you're trying to make.

[LINCOLN REPUBLICAN]

Mitt Romney is not a bigot against the non-religious.  He simply has a firm conviction that strong moral values make for a strong nation.  Strong moral values will prevent the nation from decaying from within.

He said that an atheist or agnostic should not be elected as President.  Are you saying that someone without the Christian faith does not have strong moral values?

America is a changing nation,People saw past Kennedy's Catholic faith and I think people will do the same with Romney.

Mitt Romney is closer to Al Smith than John Kennedy, in terms of this analogy you're trying to make.

My belief is that anyone, regardless of race, color, or creed, can have strong moral values, be they Christian or non Christian.

By the same token, anyone, be they Christian or non Christian, can have few if any moral values.

I know many non Christians, and I am proud to call them my friends.

[LINCOLN REPUBLICAN]

I will not be drawn into this type of an internet dialogue with individuals who are obviously predisposed to an already unenlightened stance and prejudicial attitude.

That's what we like to call dodging the bullet.

Tell me, though.  Are you willing to admit that Mitt Romney is a bigot against the non-religious?

Actually, it is called not wasting my time with an exercise in futility.

I do not wish to expend the effort of launching a cruise missile to flatten an ant hill.

Mitt Romney is not a bigot against the non-religious.  He simply has a firm conviction that strong moral values make for a strong nation.  Strong moral values will prevent the nation from decaying from within.

So basically he doesn't like non-religious people but that doesn't make him a bigot towards them?

It is entirely untrue to state that Mitt Romney does not like non religious people.  As a good Christian, Romney has love for all mankind. 

I am aware that Romney has stated that a person of faith should be President.  This by no means should be construed to indicate that Romney believes that only a Christian should be President.  A  person of faith is one who has values and principles that are for the betterment of society, and a person of faith is one who believes in a Supreme Being.  Clearly, a person of faith can be Christian, non Christian, Jewish, Muslim, what have you.

[LINCOLN REPUBLICAN]

I will not be drawn into this type of an internet dialogue with individuals who are obviously predisposed to an already unenlightened stance and prejudicial attitude.

You don't know what you are even talking about. And you dodged my question? Do you support the FLDS?

I have made it a policy of mine not to discuss my personal life on this forum.  However, let me make it perfectly clear, like Mitt Romney, for example, like John Edwards, for example, like most of the Presidential candidates, for example, I am a devout Christian, and my Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ.

Never at any time, not in the past, not now, and at no time in the future, have I, or am I, or will I ever be, a member, or supporter, or have any association with, in any way, shape, or form, with the FLDS.

I am proud to number among my friends Christians and non Christians alike, and I am as well proud to number among my friends people of many different races, nationalities, and creeds.

[Citizen James]

I seem to remember a certain Jr. senator from New York who as far as I can recall has similar positions on various popular media.  Heck, I'm old enough to remember Tipper Gore's crusade against dirty words in songs and all that other 'wicked' stuff.

Do I care that these two ladies are Southern Baptists?  Not really.   Does the fact that Bush associates with the generally moderate Methodists make his religious pronouncements less over the top. uh-uh. 

For the most part Religion only matters in how much they wear it on their sleeve and try to  incorporate it into policy.   (exceptions exist for actual dangerous cults like $cientology, branch davidians, Heavens gate, and amway distributors).

His positions, OTOH, I disagree with and make me less likely to consider voting for him should he end up running against the aforementioned senator from New York.

[Conan]

I will not be drawn into this type of an internet dialogue with individuals who are obviously predisposed to an already unenlightened stance and prejudicial attitude.

You don't know what you are even talking about. And you dodged my question? Do you support the FLDS?

I have made it a policy of mine not to discuss my personal life on this forum.  However, let me make it perfectly clear, like Mitt Romney, for example, like John Edwards, for example, like most of the Presidential candidates, for example, I am a devout Christian, and my Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ.

Never at any time, not in the past, not now, and at no time in the future, have I, or am I, or will I ever be, a member, or supporter, or have any association with, in any way, shape, or form, with the FLDS.

I am proud to number among my friends Christians and non Christians alike, and I am as well proud to number among my friends people of many different races, nationalities, and creeds.

Well, I think that the people have right to attack Romney because of his religion. If you're crazy enough to believe something that has been proven to be a charade, what makes you think your political beliefs aren't also whacky?

Then again, I am an atheist.

This is about the mentality of what I would expect from someone who calls himself "South Park Conservative," who approves of "attack Romney because of his religion."

This is low, this is disgusting, this is bigoted, to attack anyone because of their religion.

I find it incredible that such narrow minded attitudes still cast their dark and decaying shadow over 21st century society.   

Attack Romney all you want, I don't care.

Leave his religion out of it.

If he wants to suppress free speech based on what his religious says is objectionable, then it's completely fair game.

I don't care if, say, Harry Reid is a Mormon.  Great for him.

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. 

Romney speaks for what he believes.  He does not speak for his church, his church does not speak for him.

It is never "fair game" to attack anyone's church.  Rather, it is repugnant, no matter how you try to disguise it.

As President, Romney will have no control over his church, and his church will have no control over him.

Romney is a firm believer in the separation of church and state.   

Wants to supress free speech?  Nonsense.

If you ask me, you sound like a hypocrite. And my comments on this thread had nothing to do with Romney's religion. In fact, when I see Romney speak on CNN or wherever, he has always seemed like a great person. I still believe that he truly believes in everything he did in 1994, too. Also, I'd proudly vote for Harry Reid or any other Mormon like him. Anyway, your comments just aren't consistent.

[So the Heroes Fall]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a heretical church based on lies and the false prophet Joseph Smith, and a complete perversion of the truth of Jesus Christ.

Go spew your lies, bigotry, ignorance, and your venomous hatred on some hate site  where bigots like you have a good time getting together to perpetuate your sheer stupidity. 

How the f**k is this lies, bigotry and hatred?

I'm not a Mormon. Because of this, I believe Joseph Smith as a false prophet who preached lies. If I didn't, and thus believed he told the truth, I would convert to Mormonism, but I haven't. Therefore, I see Mormonism as a false religion, which all non-Mormons obviously do, and as a perversion of the faith of Jesus Christ, as all Christians obviously do. If someone didn't, they'd convert to Mormonism.

So essentially, you are saying all Mormons are bigoted.