Free Palestine Bill [Withdrawn]

[Sam Spade]

Free Palestine Bill

1. The Republic of Atlasia condemns the use of terrorism by groups such as Hezbollah and Hamas in trying to destroy the nation of Israel and to kill innocent Israeli people.
2. The Republic of Atlasia deplores the nation of Israel for using curfews, walls, and other freedom-restricting measures on the Palestinian people.
3. The Republic of Atlasia hereby recognizes the nation of Palestine as being made up by Gaza Strip and West Bank upon the condemnation of terrorism by top Palestinian officials.
4. The Republic of Atlasia hereby calls upon the United Nations, and more specifically Israel to recognize Palestine after the said conditions are met.
5. If the said conditions are met and Israel still does not recognize Palestine, the Republic of Atlasia will hereby withhold 40% of military aid to Israel and 5% more aid will be witheld for every month Israel does not recognize Palestine.

(Sponsor: Ebowed)

[Keystone Phil]

I will continue to side with our Israeli friends until the terrorist groups that control the Palestinian government step down from power. Otherwise, this government should not recognize Palestine and we definetley should not threaten a great ally with removal of aid because they are wary of those that wish to destroy them.

[DownWithTheLeft]

While this bill goes nowhere near far enough, I think it is a reasonable compromise.  However, I propose an amendment to Section 5:

If Israel does not meet the said conditions within six months of passage of this bill, the Republic of Atlasia will withdraw 75% of financial aid, plus an additional 5% for every month Israel fails to comply.

Another amendment I propose to create a new appropriatley numbered section stating:

The newly recognized nation of Palestine must also recognize the newly formed boundaries of Israel.  Failure to the recognize the nation of Israel as it will stand will result in a derecognition of the nation of Palestine by the Republic of Atlasia.

[Keystone Phil]

While this bill goes nowhere near far enough, I think it is a reasonable compromise.  However, I propose an amendment to Section 5:

If Israel does not meet the said conditions within six months of passage of this bill, the Republic of Atlasia will withdraw 75% of financial aid, plus an additional 5% for every month Israel fails to comply.

We're going to withdraw aid from our greatest ally in the Middle East (and one of our greatest allies in the entire world) because they are standing up to the people that want to "wipe them off the face of the map?"

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Under their current government, Israel will never be recognized as a nation. This is nothing but a waste of time.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Under their current government, Israel will never be recognized as a nation. This is nothing but a waste of time.

But then there are consequences against Palestine as we do not recognize them and continue to ally against them with Israel.  They can get land and Atlasian recognition, if they pass that up then that's their problem.

[Sam Spade]

I will propose a clause that requires all Arab groups within Palestine and Gaza to recognize Israel and stop wishing for its destruction before we or Israel do any recognition of any sort of Palestine or Gaza.

I will get the wording out fairly quickly on the amendment.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I will propose a clause that requires all Arab groups within Palestine and Gaza to recognize Israel and stop wishing for its destruction before we or Israel do any recognition of any sort of Palestine or Gaza.

I will get the wording out fairly quickly on the amendment.

My amendment kind of already does that

[Keystone Phil]

Under their current government, Israel will never be recognized as a nation. This is nothing but a waste of time.

But then there are consequences against Palestine as we do not recognize them and continue to ally against them with Israel. 

Then this is pointless since they won't comply.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Under their current government, Israel will never be recognized as a nation. This is nothing but a waste of time.

But then there are consequences against Palestine as we do not recognize them and continue to ally against them with Israel. 

Then this is pointless since they won't comply.

The point is giving them a chance by saying "You can have land and your country if you recognize borders."  I think it's worth a try.  The senate has very mixed feelings as we have radically pro-Israel and radically anti-Israel members of the senate so this is a good compromise.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This bill is a load of feelgood cobblers.

1. As regards the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians (and the ongoing Palestinian civil war), recognition and so on are just minor, no, extremely minor side issues and nothing else.
There are much more important things to be worried about.

2. The entire premise of this bill is ludicrously arrogant to the point of hilarity. The idea that some stupid feelgood resolution (accompanied by some foolish (and inevitably counter-productive) threats, but more on those later) will "free Palestine", bring peace to the Middle East or do anything other than amuse or irritate people is riseable.

3. I thought that the whole point of the peace process was to calm down and moderate people; not to panic them and drive them into the arms of hardliners. If there's one thing that you should have all learned by now, it's that there's only one way to get any progress in the Middle East; and that's a combination of compromise, arbitration, negotiation and treading carefully.

4. I could go on like this for much longer, but what would be the point? That this bill is yet another example of the student hack approach to politics is essentially self-evident. If honourable Senators want to help the Palestinian people, then they should try sending a load of aid to the Palestinians instead of this folly.

I'd suggest tabling the bill, but I'd be surprised if there's enough support for doing so.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Under their current government, Israel will never be recognized as a nation. This is nothing but a waste of time.

But then there are consequences against Palestine as we do not recognize them and continue to ally against them with Israel.  They can get land and Atlasian recognition, if they pass that up then that's their problem.

Do you have any understanding of the current situation in the Middle East? I realise that you are, to slightly misquote the late Lord Stratford, living proof that a pigs bladder on a stick can get elected to the Senate, but even so...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I will continue to side with our Israeli friends until the terrorist groups that control the Palestinian government step down from power.

Both major Palestinian factions have terrorist elements to them. Though I think that you're talking exclusively about Hamas here, yes? Hamas do not control the Palestinian Government.

[Keystone Phil]

Hamas do not control the Palestinian Government.

Please explain.

[MAS117]

Thank you Senator Keystone Phil for fighting the good fight in order to preserve the only true democratic nation in the middle, Israel!

[The Duke]

This bill is a load of feelgood cobblers.

1. As regards the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians (and the ongoing Palestinian civil war), recognition and so on are just minor, no, extremely minor side issues and nothing else.
There are much more important things to be worried about.

2. The entire premise of this bill is ludicrously arrogant to the point of hilarity. The idea that some stupid feelgood resolution (accompanied by some foolish (and inevitably counter-productive) threats, but more on those later) will "free Palestine", bring peace to the Middle East or do anything other than amuse or irritate people is riseable.

3. I thought that the whole point of the peace process was to calm down and moderate people; not to panic them and drive them into the arms of hardliners. If there's one thing that you should have all learned by now, it's that there's only one way to get any progress in the Middle East; and that's a combination of compromise, arbitration, negotiation and treading carefully.

4. I could go on like this for much longer, but what would be the point? That this bill is yet another example of the student hack approach to politics is essentially self-evident. If honourable Senators want to help the Palestinian people, then they should try sending a load of aid to the Palestinians instead of this folly.

I'd suggest tabling the bill, but I'd be surprised if there's enough support for doing so.

I'm glad you're here.  Seriously.

This text of the bill needs to be rewritten before it should even be considered.

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Really?  You want to convince Isreal to recognize Palestine by saying you deplore them?  The bill doesn't say we deplore the wall or we deplore curfews, but we deplore the nation of Israel itself.

And in case no one noticed, the PLO leadership has already condemned several times the practice of terrorism.  The problem is not that they won't condemn terrorism, its that their condemnations are for western consumption.  They condemn terrorism, then turn around and back terrorists.  Even the supposedly moderate Fatah has its own terrorist wing, the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, which as I speak is plotting and executing attacks on Israeli civilians.  Acting like a public condemnation will end terrorism is, as Al said, a student hack approach.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Under their current government, Israel will never be recognized as a nation. This is nothing but a waste of time.

But then there are consequences against Palestine as we do not recognize them and continue to ally against them with Israel.  They can get land and Atlasian recognition, if they pass that up then that's their problem.

Do you have any understanding of the current situation in the Middle East? I realise that you are, to slightly misquote the late Lord Stratford, living proof that a pigs bladder on a stick can get elected to the Senate, but even so...

I have a good understanding of what is going on, and no I do not believe the Palestinians will accept this bill, however, it is worth giving it a shot the current plan is not working very well at all.  Do I love this bill?  Of course not I think we should stop funding both nations entirely and completly remove ourselves from the conflict, but this bill is at least a compromise that gives things a chance to work them out.  If the Palestinians fail to hold up their end of the bargain, well then at least we can't say we didn't try.  Leaving things as they are now is about the worst thing we can do.  I hesistate to propose an amendment that we strike the whole bill and just replace it with saying we will remain neutral and not provide support to either side, but I do not believe the votes are there to pass such a measure.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I have a good understanding of what is going on

In the passage above, you said:

^{"They can get land and Atlasian recognition"}

This would seem to be reasonable proof that you do not understand what is going on. I have an awful feeling that if I were to bring up even something so well-known as Oslo, you would draw a blank.

Do you even know who the Palestinian Prime Minister is?

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Then what on earth is the point of it?

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The current situation (as regards relations between Israel and the Palestinians), while bad, is better than it was a few years ago and much, much better than it was a few decades ago. Progress has been made, however slowly.

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Why?

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How?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Hamas do not control the Palestinian Government.

Please explain.

Ismail Haniyeh was fired after the Gaza coup

[Colin]

Hamas do not control the Palestinian Government.

Please explain.

Ismail Haniyeh was fired after the Gaza coup

Yep, the current government of Palestine is an emergency cabinet installed by Mahmoud Abbas and is completely made up of Fatah members. Haniyeh nor the Hamas party are involved in the current government of Palestine.

[Keystone Phil]

Hamas do not control the Palestinian Government.

Please explain.

Ismail Haniyeh was fired after the Gaza coup

Yep, the current government of Palestine is an emergency cabinet installed by Mahmoud Abbas and is completely made up of Fatah members. Haniyeh nor the Hamas party are involved in the current government of Palestine.

I thank my colleague and the President for this information.

[Ebowed]

That this bill is yet another example of the student hack approach to politics is essentially self-evident.

I didn't write the bill; it's a remnant of a past Senate and I thought I'd reintroduce it to stimulate some debate on the issue.

[Sam Spade]

We are now voting on the following two amendments:

I propose an amendment to Section 5:

If Israel does not meet the said conditions within six months of passage of this bill, the Republic of Atlasia will withdraw 75% of financial aid, plus an additional 5% for every month Israel fails to comply.

Another amendment I propose to create a new appropriatley numbered section stating:

The newly recognized nation of Palestine must also recognize the newly formed boundaries of Israel.  Failure to the recognize the nation of Israel as it will stand will result in a derecognition of the nation of Palestine by the Republic of Atlasia.

Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.


Nay
Nay

[Sam Spade]

I'd suggest tabling the bill, but I'd be surprised if there's enough support for doing so.

I would personally be for this and may introduce such a motion. 

IMO, after examining possible amendments to make the bill more palatable, I have decided this bill is simply not worth saving.

[Keystone Phil]

Nay

Nay

[Ebowed]

Due to a lack of support, I withdraw the bill.