NJ-3: Sen. Adler Mulling Run v. Saxton

[Conan]

http://www.politicsnj.com/adler-mulls-race-vs-saxton-10458

Frankly, Saxton has a lot of cash.
2004: 51-48 Bush.
If I recall correctly, Gore won it and so have Menendez, Lautenberg, and Corzine (Gov race).

Adler has $200,000 already and Saxton $1,300,000.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

http://www.politicsnj.com/adler-mulls-race-vs-saxton-10458

Frankly, Saxton has a lot of cash.
2004: 51-48 Bush.
If I recall correctly, Gore won it and so have Menendez, Lautenberg, and Corzine (Gov race).

Adler has $200,000 already and Saxton $1,300,000.

Adler.  Talk about a hack.

[MAS117]

http://www.politicsnj.com/adler-mulls-race-vs-saxton-10458

Frankly, Saxton has a lot of cash.
2004: 51-48 Bush.
If I recall correctly, Gore won it and so have Menendez, Lautenberg, and Corzine (Gov race).

Adler has $200,000 already and Saxton $1,300,000.

Adler.  Talk about a hack.

Why do you say that?

[Conan]

http://www.politicsnj.com/adler-mulls-race-vs-saxton-10458

Frankly, Saxton has a lot of cash.
2004: 51-48 Bush.
If I recall correctly, Gore won it and so have Menendez, Lautenberg, and Corzine (Gov race).

Adler has $200,000 already and Saxton $1,300,000.

Adler.  Talk about a hack.

Why do you say that?

I second that.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

http://www.politicsnj.com/adler-mulls-race-vs-saxton-10458

Frankly, Saxton has a lot of cash.
2004: 51-48 Bush.
If I recall correctly, Gore won it and so have Menendez, Lautenberg, and Corzine (Gov race).

Adler has $200,000 already and Saxton $1,300,000.

Adler.  Talk about a hack.

Why do you say that?

Why don't I like Senator Adler (D-Norcross)?  Take a guess.

I'm in good company.  Corzine wouldn't even consider him for AG because of the stench, despite a heavy push by Norcross.

[Conan]

http://www.politicsnj.com/adler-mulls-race-vs-saxton-10458

Frankly, Saxton has a lot of cash.
2004: 51-48 Bush.
If I recall correctly, Gore won it and so have Menendez, Lautenberg, and Corzine (Gov race).

Adler has $200,000 already and Saxton $1,300,000.

Adler.  Talk about a hack.

Why do you say that?

Why don't I like Senator Adler (D-Norcross)?  Take a guess.

I'm in good company.  Corzine wouldn't even consider him for AG because of the stench, despite a heavy push by Norcross.

Well, then hack doesn't fit the bill anyway.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I suppose it depends on what sense of the word you use.

hack (hăk)
n.
3. A cheap, mediocre, or second-rate practitioner, especially in the fields of journalism and literature: a charlatan or incompetent.

see also:

pup·pet (pŭp'ĭt)
n.
4. One whose behavior is determined by the will of others: a political puppet.

[MAS117]

While I do not deny the fact that Adler has ties to Norcross, I dispute the fact that he is a hack and a puppet for George Norcross. John Adler is one of the smartest people I have ever met in my life. He is an independent thinker, and the fact that Chris Christie called him a "third rate bureaucrat was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

This race has a chance to be competitive. If Adler decides to run he will not go down without a fight. I knowledge a huge hill battle in this district. Fund raising wise I have no doubt in my mind that he can catch up to Saxton. He already has about 200K in the bank and if John does decide to run I expect a large amount of support from the DCCC and other organizations to support him.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

While I do not deny the fact that Adler has ties to Norcross, I dispute the fact that he is a hack and a puppet for George Norcross. John Adler is one of the smartest people I have ever met in my life. He is an independent thinker, and the fact that Chris Christie called him a "third rate bureaucrat was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

This race has a chance to be competitive. If Adler decides to run he will not go down without a fight. I knowledge a huge hill battle in this district. Fund raising wise I have no doubt in my mind that he can catch up to Saxton. He already has about 200K in the bank and if John does decide to run I expect a large amount of support from the DCCC and other organizations to support him.

Well, Lord, with Norcross behind him, I have no doubt that Adler would be flush with cash.  That's the only reason the guy was able to knock off Lee Laskin in 1991—a $1.9 million campaign when such things were unheard of.

(Not that there was anything special about Adler back then, of course—anyone with that kind of money could have knocked off Laskin.  It was Norcross who beat Laskin, not Adler.)

That kind of money buys you a heck of a lot of influence, and he's had 16 General and Primary Elections since to drop even more cash.

According to Philadelphia Magazine, "(a)nd of course, they call him: Adler counts Norcross
among the few he consults before making legislative decisions."  There's really no question that Adler wouldn't do a single thing that might affect Norcross negatively.

It's Norcross first, Adler second, and the people of the Sixth last.  I can't imagine what kind of Congressman he'd be, and quite frankly, I'd rather vote for someone carrying the "Worker's World" banner than for John Adler.  I'm lukewarm about Saxton, but my God, he's ten million times preferrable (and independent) than the alternative.

Smart, maybe—I can't dispute Adler's gotten far in politics.  But there's no question in my mind—none—that Norcross owns Adler.  Adler was his first major purchase!

[MAS117]

While I do not deny the fact that Adler has ties to Norcross, I dispute the fact that he is a hack and a puppet for George Norcross. John Adler is one of the smartest people I have ever met in my life. He is an independent thinker, and the fact that Chris Christie called him a "third rate bureaucrat was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

This race has a chance to be competitive. If Adler decides to run he will not go down without a fight. I knowledge a huge hill battle in this district. Fund raising wise I have no doubt in my mind that he can catch up to Saxton. He already has about 200K in the bank and if John does decide to run I expect a large amount of support from the DCCC and other organizations to support him.

Well, Lord, with Norcross behind him, I have no doubt that Adler would be flush with cash.  That's the only reason the guy was able to knock off Lee Laskin in 1991—a $1.9 million campaign when such things were unheard of.

(Not that there was anything special about Adler back then, of course—anyone with that kind of money could have knocked off Laskin.  It was Norcross who beat Laskin, not Adler.)

That kind of money buys you a heck of a lot of influence, and he's had 16 General and Primary Elections since to drop even more cash.

According to Philadelphia Magazine, "(a)nd of course, they call him: Adler counts Norcross
among the few he consults before making legislative decisions."  There's really no question that Adler wouldn't do a single thing that might affect Norcross negatively.

It's Norcross first, Adler second, and the people of the Sixth last.  I can't imagine what kind of Congressman he'd be, and quite frankly, I'd rather vote for someone carrying the "Worker's World" banner than for John Adler.  I'm lukewarm about Saxton, but my God, he's ten million times preferrable (and independent) than the alternative.

Smart, maybe—I can't dispute Adler's gotten far in politics.  But there's no question in my mind—none—that Norcross owns Adler.  Adler was his first major purchase!

I do not deny that the reason the Adler won in 1991 was because of Norcross' fund raising. Lets put that into perspective though. In 1991, the Democrats controlled no aspects of pretty much anything in Camden County and South Jersey. The Assembly and Senate seat in the 6th were solidly R and had been for years. They needed a leader, Norcross stepped up and took the reigns. You have to applaud him for turning this region from solid R to solid D. That in itself is an accomplishment.

The other thing I would say to you is this, don't take everything you read in newspapers and magazines for the truth. I know firsthand that the level of which that article states the relationship of legislative decisions is not completely accurate. On matters dealing with Banking and Insurance and stuff like that, yes he does consult with leaders like Norcross, as he is one of the leaders of that industry in South Jersey and the 6th. I think that the degree to which the Philly Mag article takes it is unwarranted, which is why I said that Adler is an independent thinker.

I know exactly what kind of Congressman he would be, an amazing one. Adler cares deeply about the people of the 6th District and the State of New Jersey immensely. What does someone carrying "The Workers World" banner mean?

To say Norcross first, Adler second, is completely not true. If you ever met the Senator then you would think otherwise. To say that George Norcross owns John Adler is just DEAD WRONG.

[Conan]

I will begin by saying that MAS's statement that Norcorss should be "applauded" for turning the region is absurd. It was done by way of corrupt financing and dirty politics. Not something that anyone should be proud of.

MAS, you offer nothing but hearsay on the matter. While Mr. Moderate has gone and posted documented editorials of Adler's performance, you have not. You have only offered that he is "the smartest person you have ever met" which is meaningless, as there is no shortage of "smart" people who have either gone to jail or gone nowhere in politics.

You have stated that you know for a fact that Adler and Norcross communicate when there is an issue relating to banking and insurance before the legislature. What is the nature of those communications? Is it on how to reform those industries (which anyone from New Jersey knows is so desperately needed) or is it about how Adler can help mold laws to benefit Commerce Bank/Insurance?

The Adler/Norcross relationship is something that is widely confirmed by many reliable accounts in this state's media and political community. What tangible evidence can you provide to us that they are incorrect, other than that you know him and he is "smart"?
 
In closing, you have stated that you believe the DCCC would provide a lot of financing to the race, and I hope they do to. He isn't going to beat Saxton. Adler represents just one municipality in that district. Saxton has a good record of service to that district and he is geographically and politically favored by far.

Wasn't your post pointless because you failed to post an article with it?

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I do not deny that the reason the Adler won in 1991 was because of Norcross' fund raising. Lets put that into perspective though. In 1991, the Democrats controlled no aspects of pretty much anything in Camden County and South Jersey. The Assembly and Senate seat in the 6th were solidly R and had been for years. They needed a leader, Norcross stepped up and took the reigns. You have to applaud him for turning this region from solid R to solid D. That in itself is an accomplishment.

From a political standpoint, Norcross is certainly the most successful party boss New Jersey has seen in decades, probably since the Hague machine.

So, yes, Norcross is an amazingly smart and talented guy.  Just like Bob Torricelli was an amazingly smart and talented guy.

The other thing I would say to you is this, don't take everything you read in newspapers and magazines for the truth. I know firsthand that the level of which that article states the relationship of legislative decisions is not completely accurate. On matters dealing with Banking and Insurance and stuff like that, yes he does consult with leaders like Norcross, as he is one of the leaders of that industry in South Jersey and the 6th. I think that the degree to which the Philly Mag article takes it is unwarranted, which is why I said that Adler is an independent thinker.

I'm smart enough not to take everything I read as the gospel—after all, I spent time as a reporter myself.  I have a very in-depth knowledge of how New Jersey really works, and most of it is ugly, ugly stuff.

I know exactly what kind of Congressman he would be, an amazing one. Adler cares deeply about the people of the 6th District and the State of New Jersey immensely. What does someone carrying "The Workers World" banner mean?

I would certainly hope Adler does care.  [Of course, Jim Saxton "cares" too, so I'm not sure that's exactly the basis on which I'd base my vote.]

And when I said that I'd rather vote for a "Worker's World" candidate, I meant to say that I would sooner vote for a third-party socialist that I could trust than I would for John Adler.

To say Norcross first, Adler second, is completely not true. If you ever met the Senator then you would think otherwise. To say that George Norcross owns John Adler is just DEAD WRONG.

All I will say here is that John Adler's reputation preceeds him among those familiar with New Jersey State government.  Everything I know about New Jersey politics says otherwise, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

No one wants to touch Adler with a ten foot pole because of his incredibly close ties to Norcross.  (More so than most other South Jersey politicians, certainly.)  While he would no doubt be able to raise enough money to be considered a serious challenger, there's no way Adler can outraise Saxton on a similar level that he outraised Laskin.  And that's the only way Adler could possibly win here.

By the end of the campaign, Adler's negatives would likely be astronomical, especially in places like Ocean County.  The truth of the matter is that two-thirds of the votes in Adler's State Senate district come from outside of the Third Congressional District, leaving him the same exact base as Susan Bass Levin had in 2000.  (Cherry Hill is the only overlap.)  I just don't see how he'd outpace Susan Bass Levin's showing, considering that she plays so much better outside (and probably inside) Cherry Hill than Adler ever would.

[Conan]

Wasn't your post pointless because you failed to post an article with it?

I'm not stating anything that is not general knowledge. Have you ever seen a clean Norcross campaign?

I am not entirely familiar with what he does/ has done. All I know is that he's a big fundraiser and owns/runs Commerce Bank with Donald DiFrancesco, iirc.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Wasn't your post pointless because you failed to post an article with it?

I'm not stating anything that is not general knowledge. Have you ever seen a clean Norcross campaign?

I am not entirely familiar with what he does/ has done. All I know is that he's a big fundraiser and owns/runs Commerce Bank with Donald DiFrancesco, iirc.

Essentially, Norcross raises massive amounts of money and takes out massive amounts of loans to engage in brutal, slash-and-burn campaigning in winnable seats throughout South Jersey.

Once a county Freeholder Board falls under majority-Norcross control, Commerce Bank (originally Norcross' insurance business) starts getting lots and lots more business.  It was essentially built on no-bid contracts.

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[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I suppose it's worth noting that Norcross is the most powerful of the Commerce boys, but just about everyone who makes New Jersey the awful, politically-nasty state that it is has ties to the bank.

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Norcross, Florio, and Lynch—it's the trifecta that bleeds New Jersey taxpayers dry.

[Conan]

I suppose it's worth noting that Norcross is the most powerful of the Commerce boys, but just about everyone who makes New Jersey the awful, politically-nasty state that it is has ties to the bank.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Norcross, Florio, and Lynch—it's the trifecta that bleeds New Jersey taxpayers dry.

Don't forget DiFrancesco!

and:
In March 2003, South Jersey's powerful Democratic political leader George E. Norcross III was named to the board on the same day as former Republican Gov. Donald DiFrancesco. The board also includes Joseph Buckelew, former chairman of the Ocean County Republican Party.


Also,
Commerce just opened their first bank in my county. I may open an account, they happen to be American's most convenient bank.

[Conan]

Norcross has been involved with the bank for years, way longer than since 2003. He is also CEO of the insurance division.

I wasn't saying otherwise if that's what you're saying.

[MAS117]

I suppose it's worth noting that Norcross is the most powerful of the Commerce boys, but just about everyone who makes New Jersey the awful, politically-nasty state that it is has ties to the bank.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Norcross, Florio, and Lynch—it's the trifecta that bleeds New Jersey taxpayers dry.

Don't forget DiFrancesco!

and:
In March 2003, South Jersey's powerful Democratic political leader George E. Norcross III was named to the board on the same day as former Republican Gov. Donald DiFrancesco. The board also includes Joseph Buckelew, former chairman of the Ocean County Republican Party.


Also,
Commerce just opened their first bank in my county. I may open an account, they happen to be American's most convenient bank.

I worked at Commerce for a year. I have to say they really are Americas most convenient bank. Vernon Hill has really revolutionized the banking industry.

[MAS117]

I have not been ignoring anything, I was in South Carolina and just returned home this afternoon. I have said I need to say. I do not know the inner workings of Commerce Bank, I just worked there. Whatever way you think of Vernon Hill, you can not deny the fact that he has revolutionized the banking industry.

As to a previous comment, I do think that Adler can raise a significant amount of money to keep up with Saxton.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I do not know the inner workings of Commerce Bank, I just worked there.

The difference between selling sausages and making them!