Roe v. Wade Hypothetical

[InsaneTrollLogic]

If Roe was overturned, I think the country map would look like this:

26+D.C. - legal (with 5 in the grey area)
24- illegal  (With 3 in the grey area)

Light Red (mostly states with conservative reputations that have libertarian tendancies)- Abortion legal when need is established- Abortion is legal, but most be approved by two or three physicians who must show that it was needed; would typically come with the same restrictions as the "Red" group. 

Red (Libertarian and Democratic states)-  Abortion is a matter of personal choice, but discouraged- Legal without question, but subject to typical abortion control measures suchs as mandatory counciling, waiting periods and madatory family involvement, if possible with possible restrictions on certain types of second-term abortions.

Dark Red (the most progressive of states)- Abortion would possibly be state funded and would definately be subject to few, if any legal spped bumps.

Light Blue(some conservative swing states and some conservative states that are libertarian)- Illegal but law can be waived in court if evidence is presented to show that an abortion is needed because of an unforeseen complication that arose after birth.

Blue(republican states and democratic states that have a large fundamentalist community)- Illegal with exception of rape, incest or threat to mother's life or possibly if the fetus will not be able to survive much after birth. Would probably be treated as a drug offense or a involuntary manslaughter offense and would be  punished with hard time of the minimal hard time that can be offered to a couple of years. Because there would not be enough exceptions to allow for clinics or ever hospitals to sustain a legal abortion practice, abortions would be done at police stations and clinics inside of the court houses under the supervision and approval of the Sheriff and the DA.

Dark Blue(the most reactionary of states)- Thorughly Illegal. Abortion could be considered a crime no matter what, or have only a "double effect" clause or even just a clause that permits abortion if it is the only way to save maternal life and the fetus is dying anyway, or there might be a rape clause, but not for incest. Abortion would be treated as manslaughter, or even capital murder, if that state kills certain convicts.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Let's keep this poll going.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

I'd be willing to accept abortion being made a capital crime in exchange for marijuana legalized fully.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

I'd be willing to accept abortion being made a capital crime in exchange for marijuana legalized fully.

...and maybe cloning being allowed.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

No. One goal at a time. but sincr abortion is THAT perhaps marijuana being legalized and an end to FCC decency censorship.

[Angel of Death]

There is no judicial basis to either allow or ban abortion without explicit legislation.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

There is no judicial basis to either allow or ban abortion without explicit legislation.

Who cares? If I can milk it to get some laws i'd like to see passed then I'd do it.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

No. One goal at a time. but sincr abortion is THAT perhaps marijuana being legalized and an end to FCC decency censorship.

What do you mean?

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

I meant Abortion is THAT big of an issue so I'd force a BIG concession from the cons in return.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

That's what I thought. Needed to make sure.

I would have -

- repeal of the "PATRIOT" act
- repeal of the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act and other federal laws that ban pot
- Equal funding for embryonic stem sell research to funding of its "kosher" alternatives.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Besides #2 on your list you're thinking too small. Also the patriot act is a good thing(compared to the pre-9/11 status quo. Yes the act needs revising but its still needed).

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Can you come up with a map of what the nation's abortion laws would look like if the federal government declared nuetrality on abortion and refused to take up any cases, legislation, or constitutional amendments on the issue?

Besides #2 on your list you're thinking too small. Also the patriot act is a good thing(compared to the pre-9/11 status quo. Yes the act needs revising but its still needed).

Okay, how about just an end to warrantless wiretapping, Iraq War and attempts to constitutionally recognize homophobic jurisprudence?

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

1 No.
2 No.
3 Yes

As long as we have 1.4 billion muslims alive on earth we can't loosen up any on security.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

1 No.
2 No.
3 Yes

As long as we have 1.4 billion muslims alive on earth we can't loosen up any on security.

I'm guessing that you are a lot like Joe Lieberman? Not neccesiarily a bad thing.

...and I doubt that Islam is our biggest long term concerned. We have had bigger enemies, lived for 1500 years with these people and we can't just murder 25% of the population.  Dangerous short-term solutions are not preferrable to ones that emphasize long-term assimilation based out weeding out radicals, educating moderates to be more moderate and economic growth.
...and what about the map?

[Friz]

Leave Roe vs. Wade in place as is.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

if Roe was overturned, what do you think the abortion policy map would look like?

[Frodo]

if Roe was overturned, what do you think the abortion policy map would look like?

I would guess that the South as a whole (basically the former Confederacy, plus Oklahoma and Kentucky) would have some of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country, as well as Utah, Indiana, and the plains states (i.e. Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota).

The only states that would ban abortion outright (with no exceptions at all) would likely be those in the Deep South or in Utah. 

[InsaneTrollLogic]

and a life exception isn't an exception. You can kill born live people with the life exception.

[bullmoose88]

We should really be talking about Planned Parenthood v. Casey...

[InsaneTrollLogic]

We should really be talking about Planned Parenthood v. Casey...

Of course...but you know what we mean. What do you think will happen if banning abortion becomes a legitimate state interest warranting only a rational-relationship level of review?

Map?

[bullmoose88]

We should really be talking about Planned Parenthood v. Casey...

Of course...but you know what we mean. What do you think will happen if banning abortion becomes a legitimate state interest warranting only a rational-relationship level of review?

Map?

Well...it gets a higher standard because of the privacy rights involved...perhaps if you separate abortion from privacy, you could still tie it to some intermediate standard based on a sex classification...shrug

[InsaneTrollLogic]

or just throw out the right to privacy or say that Roe flies against tradition and should get the Bowers standard. My question was how the states would react. Can you answer that?

[bullmoose88]

or just throw out the right to privacy or say that Roe flies against tradition and should get the Bowers standard. My question was how the states would react. Can you answer that?

I don't know why one would want the bowers standard (heightened rational basis) as opposed to intermediate scrutiny...

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Bowers only scrutinizes those that are deeply held in American tradition. They can say that abortion is not part of american tradition and therefore is a behavior that can be prosecuted.


But...what would the map look like?

[J. J.]

"Leave Roe vs. Wade in place, but support imposing additional restrictions on women's access to abortion"

This is basically the situation today.  I doubt if it will change.