Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 21, 2013, 11:49:55 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Discussion
| |-+  Constitution and Law (Moderators: Emsworth, True Federalist)
| | |-+  The 1st Amendment
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: The 1st Amendment  (Read 1884 times)
SPC
Chuck Hagel 08
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8489
Syrian Arab Republic


Political Matrix
E: 9.35, S: -9.13

View Profile
« on: July 29, 2007, 10:50:44 pm »
Ignore

I have a question about this. Not that I in any way, shape, or form oppose free speech, but the text of the first amendment states the Congress shall make no law establishing religion, the free exersise thereof, speech, the press, or the right to petition for a redress of grievances. However, this amendment has sometimes been used by the courts to to strike down state laws regulating these issues. Even if you count the 14th Amendment, it still would not make sense, as the amendment refers specifically to Congress. Any explanations here?

Also, if the 1st Amendment doesn't protect free speech at the state level, I would be willing to amend to Constitution so that it does.
Logged

InsaneTrollLogic
Angry_Weasel
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10945
United States


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2007, 11:31:33 pm »
Ignore

Then again, there is the Art I Sect IV which gurantees that the federal government will provide a "republican" form of government for all the states, and I am not talking about gay marriage.

This could mean that with the XIVA, you could claim that with the Ad. I and Art I Sect. IV, that free speech would be indoctrinated into XIVA because it is needed to assure that all americans citizens have a republican form of government at the state level, whateve that means. Though Art.I Sec.IV has been pretty thoroughly ignored since the 1840s by judges "making things up" to make loop holes in it.
Logged
Jacobtm
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3059


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2007, 12:51:53 am »
Ignore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_(Bill_of_Rights)
Logged

Why do so many people here cheer on war crimes?
Israel and the United States "killing dozens of civilians with explosives", as you phrase it, has, throughout history, almost always been a good thing.
Southern Patriot
DWPerry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1732
Puerto Rico


Political Matrix
E: 7.03, S: -6.26

View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2007, 01:31:05 am »
Ignore

Then again, there is the Art I Sect IV which gurantees that the federal government will provide a "republican" form of government for all the states, and I am not talking about gay marriage.

This could mean that with the XIVA, you could claim that with the Ad. I and Art I Sect. IV, that free speech would be indoctrinated into XIVA because it is needed to assure that all americans citizens have a republican form of government at the state level, whateve that means. Though Art.I Sec.IV has been pretty thoroughly ignored since the 1840s by judges "making things up" to make loop holes in it.
"Republican form of Government" for all States means that the States shall be set up as a Republic which is based on the Rule of Law, as opposed to a Democracy, which is based on the Rule of Man.
Logged


Vasall des Midas
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56594
Vatican City State


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2007, 07:42:32 am »
Ignore

Then again, there is the Art I Sect IV which gurantees that the federal government will provide a "republican" form of government for all the states, and I am not talking about gay marriage.

This could mean that with the XIVA, you could claim that with the Ad. I and Art I Sect. IV, that free speech would be indoctrinated into XIVA because it is needed to assure that all americans citizens have a republican form of government at the state level, whateve that means. Though Art.I Sec.IV has been pretty thoroughly ignored since the 1840s by judges "making things up" to make loop holes in it.
"Republican form of Government" for all States means that the States shall be set up as a Republic which is based on the Rule of Law, as opposed to a Democracy, which is based on the Rule of Man.
I'm fairly certain that this inane definition of "Republic" -not found outside the US of A - postdates 1789.

Here's what the Wiki has to say:
Quote
Clause 1: Republican government
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government...
This clause, sometimes referred to as the Guarantee Clause, while somewhat obscure today, has historically been a part of the debate about the rights of citizens vis-a-vis state governments. No explanation is offered in the Constitution as to what constitutes a republican government; it may have been intended to mean nothing more than that no state could erect a monarchy (a threat that might have seemed more realistic in 1787 than it does today).

A crisis in 1840s Rhode Island, the Dorr Rebellion, forced the Supreme Court to rule on the meaning of this clause. At the time, the state constitution was the old royal charter established in the 17th century, under which most free white males in the state were disenfranchised; an attempt to hold a popular convention to write a new constitution was declared insurrection by the charter government, and the convention leaders were arrested. One of them brought suit in federal courts, arguing that Rhode Island's government was not "republican" in character, and that his arrest (along with all of the government's other acts) were invalid. In Luther v. Borden, 48 U.S. 1 (1849), the Court rejected the notion that the "republican-ness" of states lay within the purview of judicial review, holding that "it rests with Congress to decide what government is the established one in a State ... as well as its republican character." In effect, it held the clause to be non-justiciable.

The ruling did leave it open to Congress to establish guidelines for the republican nature of state governments, however, which became an important part of the initial phases of Reconstruction after the American Civil War. The Radical Republican-led Congress viewed this clause as a tool to shape the governments of the reconquered southern states: they argued that any state that did not offer equality before the law and suffrage for former slaves could not be considered truly "republican," and thus could be denied Congressional representation.[4] With the passage of the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments, the power of the federal government to safeguard these rights was explicitly added to the Constitution, and this interpretation of Section Four became moot. Indeed, when the Supreme Court revisited some of the territory covered by Luther v. Borden in cases like Baker v. Carr, the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause was the basis of its changed decisions.

Wikipedia, as usual, is not a perfect source:
Quote
it may have been intended to mean nothing more than that no state could erect a monarchy
should really be amended to something closer to "obviously, this just means that no state can erect a monarchy".
The 1840 RI suitor, btw, clearly equated "Republican" and "Democratic" (or, at least, "more or less Democratic".)
Logged

Liberate yourself from Free Will


Kitty's beardgrowing advice to Mitty.
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Forums Directory