Aliens

[Person Man]

I think we will find a mounting case for some form of fossilized or living life on Mars and will also find an exosolar planet that has the signature of alien life by 2025. Though I doubt we will actually get another "Wow" signal until aleast 2050, if at all.

[The Dowager Mod]

Perhaps.

[Boris]

Theoretically, there should be at least thousands of intelligent civilizations in the galaxy, assuming that the rare Earth hypothesis is false. Assuming these alien civilizations are at the same or have surpassed our technological level, we'll find them soon enough. If not, then they're difficult to detect (Humans themselves would probably have been undetectable to an alien civilization until about a 100 years ago with the advent of radio).

The odds are that we'll probably find some sort bacteria first, either fossilized (perhaps on Mars), or living, perhaps on the Galilean Moon of Europa. 

[Person Man]

Theoretically, there should be at least thousands of intelligent civilizations in the galaxy, assuming that the rare Earth hypothesis is false. Assuming these alien civilizations are at the same or have surpassed our technological level, we'll find them soon enough. If not, then they're difficult to detect (Humans themselves would probably have been undetectable to an alien civilization until about a 100 years ago with the advent of radio).

The odds are that we'll probably find some sort bacteria first, either fossilized (perhaps on Mars), or living, perhaps on the Galilean Moon of Europa. 

I am beginning to think we might actually find some life on Mars.

[SPC]

I think of it this way:

The universe is infinite, so the odds that there is inteligent life somewhere else is pretty high.

[The Dowager Mod]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Carl Sagan

[Verily]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Carl Sagan

In that, he would be wrong (or at least poorly expressed). Until evidence can be provided, there is no reason whatsoever to presume anything. I am perfectly open to the possibility of life beyond Earth, but the lack of evidence currently points to it not existing.

[??????????]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Carl Sagan

Is Sagan a Christian?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Carl Sagan

Is Sagan a Christian?

Ummm... No.

The only answer that can be given to this question is: Probably.

[Ebowed]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Carl Sagan

Is Sagan a Christian?

Ummm... No.

Of course Sagan was an atheist, but StatesRights wants to apply the statement to God.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Carl Sagan

Is Sagan a Christian?

Ummm... No.

Of course Sagan was an atheist, but StatesRights wants to apply the statement to God.

I figured it as much. Of course that statement could well apply to all religions, or for the Flying Spaghetti monster...

[MODU]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Carl Sagan

Carl says the Aliens are already here, and cross our borders on a daily basis.

[David S]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Carl Sagan

Is Sagan a Christian?

Interesting question. Many years ago there was a TV series called Cosmos which was hosted by Carl Sagan. It was a fascinating program designed to promote an interest in science. In one of the programs he said science does not require that there either is or is not a god. He kind of left the impression that he is not a believer in god.

Sagan also wrote a book called Contact which was the basis for the movie by the same name starring Jody Foster. In the book there was a final chapter titled "The Artist's Signature" which was omitted from the movie. In that chapter the young lady scientist is told by her alien host of something unusual in naturally occuring numbers like pi and e which their scientists could not explain. When she returns home she tries it out on her own computer and finds the same result.
I won't tell you what she found except to say that it would offer highly compelling evidence that the universe was created and didn't just happen. Of course this is fiction and no such evidence has been found in reality, but it makes you wonder if perhaps Sagan did have some religious beliefs.

[nlm]

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity. - Carl Sagan

I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. - Carl Sagan from "The Demon-Haunted World"

You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe. - Carl Sagan

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. it is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.) - Carl Sagan, from "the Fine Art of Baloney Detection"

I maintain there is much more wonder in science than in pseudoscience. And in addition, to whatever measure this term has any meaning, science has the additional virtue, and it is not an inconsiderable one, of being true. - Carl Sagan from "The Burden Of Skepticism"

If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits? - Carl Sagan from "The Demon-Haunted World"

We live on a hunk of rock and metal that circles a humdrum star that is one of 400 billion other stars that make up the Milky Way Galaxy which is one of billions of other galaxies which make up a universe which may be one of a very large number, perhaps an infinite number, of other universes. That is a perspective on human life and our culture that is well worth pondering. - Carl Sagan

The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion or in politics, but it is not the path to knowledge, and there's no place for it in the endeavor of science. We do not know beforehand where fundamental insights will arise from about our mysterious and lovely solar system. The history of our study of our solar system shows us clearly that accepted and conventional ideas are often wrong, and that fundamental insights can arise from the most unexpected sources. - Carl Sagan from "Cosmos"

If some good evidence for life after death were announced, I'd be eager to examine it; but it would have to be real scientific data, not mere anecdote.... Better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy. - Carl Sagan from "The Demon-Haunted World"

It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

[MODU]

I loved the Cosmos series, even though some of his conclusions were a bit strange.  As far as if he was a Christian, no I don't think he was.  I think he was more of an Agnostic than a Scientologist.  He didn't believe that a lot of things in our universe occurred by chance, but he stopped well short of claiming that a deity controlled the heavens.  

[MasterJedi]

Eventually we'll find intelligent life, who knows when it will be though. Could be tomorrow, could not be for a long time.

[Colin]

You have to think of the vast distances in space. Assuming that there is no way to break the light speed speed limit, and not prove Einstein wrong, that there's no warp drive or hyperspace or wormholes then space does begin to close in around you. In a human lifetime even going .8c you couldn't go more than 80-100 light years. Let's assume that there are 2,000 space faring intelligent civilizations in the galaxy, not exactly rare Earth but, in my opinion, slightly more realistic than the aliens around every corner belief, that would mean that for each civilization they would have, on average, a 500 light-year bubble around their home planet of uninhabited space. That distance is so vast that using sub-light travel it would be almost impossible to make the journey, since at that .8c speed that I stated before it would take 625 years to cross it.

To put it simply, in my mind there are other intelligent lifeforms out there, probably a great many civlizations, empires, and polities, however the distances are so vast that the likelihood of communication and contact between them is very low unless, by some stroke of luck that goes against probability, you have two intelligent race occupying nearly the same space.

[MODU]

Or, a civilization has the technology to send a small exploration group with the capacity to grow/create their own food supplies and is willing to reproduce while traveling, knowing that their children, grandchildren, etc will grow up never knowing what it is like to have seen their home world.  Of course, you then risk the medical side-effects of inbreeding, so who knows how healthy these individuals are by the time the find another planet with life on it.

[Colin]

Or, a civilization has the technology to send a small exploration group with the capacity to grow/create their own food supplies and is willing to reproduce while traveling, knowing that their children, grandchildren, etc will grow up never knowing what it is like to have seen their home world.  Of course, you then risk the medical side-effects of inbreeding, so who knows how healthy these individuals are by the time the find another planet with life on it.

Also you have to take into effect if you send huge generation ships, with 10,000 or more people on them, 650 years is plenty of time for civilization to collapse and for the population to revert to barbarism.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Or, a civilization has the technology to send a small exploration group with the capacity to grow/create their own food supplies and is willing to reproduce while traveling, knowing that their children, grandchildren, etc will grow up never knowing what it is like to have seen their home world.  Of course, you then risk the medical side-effects of inbreeding, so who knows how healthy these individuals are by the time the find another planet with life on it.

Also you have to take into effect if you send huge generation ships, with 10,000 or more people on them, 650 years is plenty of time for civilization to collapse and for the population to revert to barbarism.

Lucky then that science is making such leap and bounds in human hibernation science

I voted option three. No-one more than me would like to see contact with another intergalatic civilisation (if we call the mess that is our home a civilisation) but realistically the odds are very short. Wixted put it very clearly I think.

[Person Man]

Well, at least the good thing about option 3 is that your anuce will not broken.  However, maybe on neighboring planets we have already found there might be primitive wild animals. I mean, if there are 2000 alien planets in our galaxy, maybe using Drake's quation there are hundreds of thousands of "wild" planets which instead of 500 light years away, could only be 5 or 10.

[David S]

As to the question at hand:
So far we have found no life except what exists on earth. Yet the diversity of life on earth suggests it can exist in a wide variety of environments, from the bottom of glaciers, to  the thermal vents on the ocean floor where tempertares, pressures and chemistry exist which would instantly kill life forms we are more familiar with.

Finding life such as bacteria or other primative life forms on other planets would be interesting, but finding intelligent life we could communicate with would be earthshaking. I'm surprised we haven't already found any radio signals from other worlds considering how long we've been looking. Maybe we haven't looked in the right places. Or it could be that more advanced civilizations have found better ways to communicate than radio. Maybe they've found ways to beat the speed of light problem. Or maybe they just aren't there.

That roundabout rant means I don't have a clue. I am happy to say though that the largest SETI project on earth is being funded largely by Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen. Capitalism at work!

[Person Man]

As to the question at hand:
So far we have found no life except what exists on earth. Yet the diversity of life on earth suggests it can exist in a wide variety of environments, from the bottom of glaciers, to  the thermal vents on the ocean floor where tempertares, pressures and chemistry exist which would instantly kill life forms we are more familiar with.

Finding life such as bacteria or other primative life forms on other planets would be interesting, but finding intelligent life we could communicate with would be earthshaking. I'm surprised we haven't already found any radio signals from other worlds considering how long we've been looking. Maybe we haven't looked in the right places. Or it could be that more advanced civilizations have found better ways to communicate than radio. Maybe they've found ways to beat the speed of light problem. Or maybe they just aren't there.

That roundabout rant means I don't have a clue. I am happy to say though that the largest SETI project on earth is being funded largely by Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen. Capitalism at work!

Yeah, Microsoft has been doing amazing things of late.

Anyways, maybe we should actually try to actively communicate. Maybe try to sell McDonald's.

[Bacon King]

Of course, you then risk the medical side-effects of inbreeding, so who knows how healthy these individuals are by the time the find another planet with life on it.

Assuming, of course, that the alien life form reproduces sexually. Which is probably a pretty big assumption.

[Person Man]

Of course, you then risk the medical side-effects of inbreeding, so who knows how healthy these individuals are by the time the find another planet with life on it.

Assuming, of course, that the alien life form reproduces sexually. Which is probably a pretty big assumption.

Maybe we should ask them. Maybe we can send a message instead of just looking for them.