Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 23, 2014, 12:11:33 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
| |-+  U.S. Presidential Election Results (Moderator: True Federalist)
| | |-+  Need some help with election results!
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Need some help with election results!  (Read 1239 times)
kashifsakhan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 516
View Profile
« on: August 05, 2007, 05:50:02 pm »
Ignore

I know for a fact that there have been 4 instances in US election history where the candidate with fewer popular votes won the presidency.

I have managed to find 3 of these:

1876 - Rutherford B. Hayes defeated Samuel J. Tilden
1888 - Benjamin Harrison defeated Grover Cleveland
2000- George W. Bush defeated Al Gore

Can someone tell me what the 4th such instance was? I can't seem to find it.

Thanks.
Logged

○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 32525


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2007, 05:53:26 pm »
Ignore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1824
Logged
kashifsakhan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 516
View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2007, 06:16:54 pm »
Ignore

thanks a lot. appreciate it.
Logged

True Federalist
Ernest
Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 29057
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2007, 06:59:36 pm »

1824 is disputable though.  Even among the states that put the matter up to a popular vote, only Illinois, Maryland, Missouri, Pennsylvania, and possibly Alabama (votes were recorded for Clay in Alabama, but were few enough to make me think they may have been write-ins) had all four of the principal candidates on the ballot.  That makes it difficult to judge how the matter would have gone had there truly been a national vote, though I agree the available evidence suggests a Jackson plurality.

Also the EV would have quite different had the winner-take all rules now common had been in place then.  Adams managed to win the PV in both Illinois and Maryland, yet Jackson got most of eth EV's in both States.

Adams 92 (CT, IL, MA, MD, NH, NY, RI, VT)
Jackson 91 (AL, IN, LA, MS, NJ, NC, PA, SC, TN)
Crawford 36 (DE, GA, VA)
Clay 33 (KY, MO, OH)

Note that Adams comes in first in the EV in such a case, albeit not by enough to avoid going to Congress.
Logged

People find meaning and redemption in the most unusual human connections. Khaled Hosseini
Erc
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4685
Slovenia


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2007, 07:23:47 pm »
Ignore

The case has been made for 1960, as well, where it depends on how you count Alabama's votes.  It had been decided in a Democratic primary that they would put up a slate of 11 electors, 5 of whom were obliged to vote for Kennedy and 6 of whom were free to vote for anybody.  This is in contrast to other Southern states (Louisiana and Mississippi), where all Democratic electors were Kennedy electors and there was a separate slate for Unpledged Electors.  In Mississippi, the Unpledged Electors won the election with 39% of the vote (to Kennedy's 36%) and the state's electoral votes (they, together with the six Unpledged Alabama electors and one faithless Republican elector from Oklahoma, voted for Harry Byrd).  In Louisiana, the Unpledged Electors came in third with 21%.

Essentially, given that there was no separate "Unpledged" line in Alabama and that the electorate knew that 6 of the electoral votes of Alabama, if won by the Democrats, would go to Unpledged Electors, can we really say that all 318,303 votes for the Democratic ticket in Alabama were really votes for Kennedy?   (as opposed to the Unpledged slate)

Generally (and on this site), all of the Democratic votes in Alabama are counted for Kennedy, giving Kennedy a 112,827 vote lead over Nixon in the popular vote--a smaller margin than the number of Democratic votes in Alabama.  If you think that more than 35% of the Democratic votes in Alabama were not really for Kennedy (as the results of the Democratic primary would seem to suggest), then Nixon would, by that count, receives more votes than Kennedy nationwide.  If you divide up Alabama's Democratic vote 6-to-5, Nixon beats Kennedy nationwide, 34,108,157 to 34,047,364.

To get back to the gist of your question, however, most sources do consider Kennedy to be the popular vote winner--the argument that Nixon won the PV in 1960 is a rather technical one that's mainly reserved for places like this.

Generally, 1824 is considered to be that "fourth election," although do read Ernest's very good comments on that subject.
Logged
jimrtex
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5918
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2007, 02:46:30 am »
Ignore

I know for a fact that there have been 4 instances in US election history where the candidate with fewer popular votes won the presidency.

I have managed to find 3 of these:

1876 - Rutherford B. Hayes defeated Samuel J. Tilden
1888 - Benjamin Harrison defeated Grover Cleveland
2000- George W. Bush defeated Al Gore

Can someone tell me what the 4th such instance was? I can't seem to find it.

Thanks.
1960 - John Fitzgerald Kennedy defeated Richard Milhous Nixon
Logged
○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 32525


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2007, 08:21:33 pm »
Ignore

I know for a fact that there have been 4 instances in US election history where the candidate with fewer popular votes won the presidency.

I have managed to find 3 of these:

1876 - Rutherford B. Hayes defeated Samuel J. Tilden
1888 - Benjamin Harrison defeated Grover Cleveland
2000- George W. Bush defeated Al Gore

Can someone tell me what the 4th such instance was? I can't seem to find it.

Thanks.
1960 - John Fitzgerald Kennedy defeated Richard Milhous Nixon


Hey, how about 1880? That one had a closer popular vote.
Logged
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58775
India


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2007, 09:26:46 am »
Ignore

There are three or arguably four such instances. *Shrugs.*
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines