Census Bureau wants to halt immigration raids during 2010 Census

[Tender Branson]

WASHINGTON - The Census Bureau wants immigration agents to suspend enforcement raids during the 2010 census so the government can better count illegal immigrants.

Raids during the population count would make an already distrustful group even less likely to cooperate with government workers who are supposed to include them, the Census Bureau’s second-ranking official said in an interview with The Associated Press.

Deputy Director Preston Jay Waite said immigration enforcement officials did not conduct raids for several months before and after the 2000 census. But today’s political climate is even more volatile on the issue of illegal immigration.

Enforcement agents “have a job to do,” Waite said. “They may not be able to give us as much of a break” in 2010.

Pat Reilly, a spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, declined to say whether immigration officials would halt raids. “If we were, we wouldn’t talk about it,” she said.

“We would have to discuss this at the highest levels of both agencies,” Reilly said.

Republicans, Democrats and the White House have been at odds over how to resolve the fate of an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants. After Congress failed to pass an immigration overhaul sought by the president, the Bush administration said last week that it would step up efforts to enforce immigration laws.

Story continues ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20305654/

[Tender Branson]

The article says:

"Census workers ask immigrants if they are citizens; they do not ask if they are in the country legally."

“We’re supposed to count every resident. If you go out and ask, ’Are you here illegally?’ they are going to run,” said Kenneth Prewitt, who directed the Census Bureau during the 2000 census.

...

Are US census workers just asking people if they are citizens or do they also ask for citizenship-documents ??

Because otherwise everyone could tell the census worker that he´s a "citizen" ...

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

No, they don't ask for any info.  Indeed, if you just fill out the form they mail everybody, they generally don't bother to check.  I wouldn't be surprised if some of those fundamentalist Mormon polygamous communities in Utah and Arizona exaggerate their population on the census forms so as to increase the funding those communities get from the Feds.

[Cubby]

I hope the raids stop in 2010. Immigrants are already severely undercounted. Hidalgo County, Texas (on the Rio Grande) was given a census population of 569,000 in 2000. But a Texas State estimate put it at 624,000 that year. How can we not count 55,000 people?! This not only hurts the communities that are undercounted, but the Democrats as well. They sure as hell wouldn't miss 55,000 people in Montgomery, TX or some other hyper-Republican stronghold.

On a related note, Libertarians and Republicans better not start whining that the Census invades their privacy like they did in 2000. I agree that some of the questions are not needed, the ones about plumbing, etc. on the long form. But to not fill out the short census form is, for lack of a better word, unpatriotic. It is part of the Constitution after all.

[Padfoot]

I hope they increase the illegal immigrant raids during the 2010 Census.  New York and the Mexico border states are being overrepresented in Congress because illegal immigrants are counted in the population during congressional apportionment.  Why should Texas and California get extra votes in Congress and the Electoral College due to high numbers of illegal residents who can't even participate in the election.  It would be nice if this bill would pass but I highly doubt it will ever get out of committee.

[Tender Branson]

I hope they increase the illegal immigrant raids during the 2010 Census.  New York and the Mexico border states are being overrepresented in Congress because illegal immigrants are counted in the population during congressional apportionment.  Why should Texas and California get extra votes in Congress and the Electoral College due to high numbers of illegal residents who can't even participate in the election.  It would be nice if this bill would pass but I highly doubt it will ever get out of committee.

While your point is legitimate when it comes to congressional apportionment, it´s not really valid when it comes to the Electoral College. CA for example is currently not overrepresented in the EC, but underrepresented in favor of small states like ND, SD and WY. If the EC was apportioned according to its population share in the US, California should have 65 Electoral Votes according to Census 2000, not the 55 it currently has. OH should have 22 instead of the 20 it has right now. CA had 3 times OH's population in 2000, so it should have 3 times OH's 20 EVs, instead of the 55. So you as an OHan should not complain about CA being overrepresented in the EC, if you have actually 5 more EV than CA.

And btw how should they increase the illegal immigrant raids during Census 2010 ? As the article says no census worker asks if those questioned are legally in the US. They just ask if they are citizenzs. Do you expect census workers to inform the raid-agencies whenever they encounter a suspicious non-citizen ? That would not only violate the privacy during the census count but would also lead to a modern witch hunt.

[jimrtex]

On a related note, Libertarians and Republicans better not start whining that the Census invades their privacy like they did in 2000. I agree that some of the questions are not needed, the ones about plumbing, etc. on the long form. But to not fill out the short census form is, for lack of a better word, unpatriotic. It is part of the Constitution after all.

The long form won't be used for the regular census, having been replaced by the ACS.

[Cubby]

On a related note, Libertarians and Republicans better not start whining that the Census invades their privacy like they did in 2000. I agree that some of the questions are not needed, the ones about plumbing, etc. on the long form. But to not fill out the short census form is, for lack of a better word, unpatriotic. It is part of the Constitution after all.

The long form won't be used for the regular census, having been replaced by the ACS.

Well, it looks like the complainers won that round. The ACS is very suspect in my opinion. The 2005 one shows lots of places declining from 2000 but only because it is very limited and leaves out large groups of people.

[Padfoot]

I hope they increase the illegal immigrant raids during the 2010 Census.  New York and the Mexico border states are being overrepresented in Congress because illegal immigrants are counted in the population during congressional apportionment.  Why should Texas and California get extra votes in Congress and the Electoral College due to high numbers of illegal residents who can't even participate in the election.  It would be nice if this bill would pass but I highly doubt it will ever get out of committee.

While your point is legitimate when it comes to congressional apportionment, it´s not really valid when it comes to the Electoral College. CA for example is currently not overrepresented in the EC, but underrepresented in favor of small states like ND, SD and WY. If the EC was apportioned according to its population share in the US, California should have 65 Electoral Votes according to Census 2000, not the 55 it currently has. OH should have 22 instead of the 20 it has right now. CA had 3 times OH's population in 2000, so it should have 3 times OH's 20 EVs, instead of the 55. So you as an OHan should not complain about CA being overrepresented in the EC, if you have actually 5 more EV than CA.

And btw how should they increase the illegal immigrant raids during Census 2010 ? As the article says no census worker asks if those questioned are legally in the US. They just ask if they are citizenzs. Do you expect census workers to inform the raid-agencies whenever they encounter a suspicious non-citizen ? That would not only violate the privacy during the census count but would also lead to a modern witch hunt.

Actually my point is quite valid when it comes to the Electoral College since the number of EVs a state receives is directly related to the number of congressional seats that state holds.  Therefore, states with high numbers of illegal immigrants are receiving more electoral votes than they deserve.  The EC system was purposely designed to favor states with smaller populations which is why the number of EVs a state receives isn't directly proportional to its share of the overall US population.

And btw, I never actually said it was the responsibility of the Census Bureau to report illegal immigrants.  You misinterpreted my meaning when I said "I hope they increase the illegal immigrant raids in 2010."  When I say "they" I of course mean the immigration agents of the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement branch of the Department of Homeland Security.  Because if they increase their raids there will not only be less illegal immigrants, there will also be less illegal immigrants willing to cooperate with Census officials and thus less will be counted.  The hopeful outcome being that illegal immigrants will have a negligible affect on apportionment of congressional seats and electoral votes.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

That's a damn shame. They should do those raids during the census.

[jimrtex]

On a related note, Libertarians and Republicans better not start whining that the Census invades their privacy like they did in 2000. I agree that some of the questions are not needed, the ones about plumbing, etc. on the long form. But to not fill out the short census form is, for lack of a better word, unpatriotic. It is part of the Constitution after all.

The long form won't be used for the regular census, having been replaced by the ACS.

Well, it looks like the complainers won that round. The ACS is very suspect in my opinion. The 2005 one shows lots of places declining from 2000 but only because it is very limited and leaves out large groups of people.

When they have enough data, it should be as statistically valid as the results from the long form (other than not being tied to a single date), and for larger populations on an annual basis.

The data that has been released so far excluded persons living in group quarters, so areas with a lot of college dormitories are undercounted.  Note that group quarters were excluded from the long form in the 2000 Census.

[jimrtex]

WASHINGTON - The Census Bureau wants immigration agents to suspend enforcement raids during the 2010 census so the government can better count illegal immigrants.

Census Issues Clarification on 2010 Census and Law Enforcement

“The Census Bureau has not requested that the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency refrain from enforcing immigration laws. While previous Administrations sought to have law enforcement raids curtailed somewhat to help obtain greater accuracy, we respect ICE's statement that they will not suspend raids even if a decision were made to ask them to do so. The Census Bureau fully recognizes that times have changed, with new challenges facing immigration authorities, and Census will change with those times.”

[Cubby]

On a related note, Libertarians and Republicans better not start whining that the Census invades their privacy like they did in 2000. I agree that some of the questions are not needed, the ones about plumbing, etc. on the long form. But to not fill out the short census form is, for lack of a better word, unpatriotic. It is part of the Constitution after all.

The long form won't be used for the regular census, having been replaced by the ACS.

Well, it looks like the complainers won that round. The ACS is very suspect in my opinion. The 2005 one shows lots of places declining from 2000 but only because it is very limited and leaves out large groups of people.

When they have enough data, it should be as statistically valid as the results from the long form (other than not being tied to a single date), and for larger populations on an annual basis.

The data that has been released so far excluded persons living in group quarters, so areas with a lot of college dormitories are undercounted.  Note that group quarters were excluded from the long form in the 2000 Census.

And what is their justification for excluding group quarters? It's much easier to call up a single jail or college and find out how many people live there, than it is to get the public at large to participate. If I remember from 2000, only 67% of Americans were capable of returning their census forms.

[jimrtex]

On a related note, Libertarians and Republicans better not start whining that the Census invades their privacy like they did in 2000. I agree that some of the questions are not needed, the ones about plumbing, etc. on the long form. But to not fill out the short census form is, for lack of a better word, unpatriotic. It is part of the Constitution after all.

The long form won't be used for the regular census, having been replaced by the ACS.

Well, it looks like the complainers won that round. The ACS is very suspect in my opinion. The 2005 one shows lots of places declining from 2000 but only because it is very limited and leaves out large groups of people.

When they have enough data, it should be as statistically valid as the results from the long form (other than not being tied to a single date), and for larger populations on an annual basis.

The data that has been released so far excluded persons living in group quarters, so areas with a lot of college dormitories are undercounted.  Note that group quarters were excluded from the long form in the 2000 Census.

And what is their justification for excluding group quarters? It's much easier to call up a single jail or college and find out how many people live there, than it is to get the public at large to participate. If I remember from 2000, only 67% of Americans were capable of returning their census forms.

In 2000, 67% responded.  This says nothing about the capabilities of the non-respondents.

The purpose of the ACS is to gather information equivalent to the long form on a continuing basis.  Each year, about 1/40 of households are surveyed,   Over a five-year running period this represents about the same number of persons as received the long form.  The 1/8 sample is considered to be statistically valid for most census tracts.    A one year sample is valid for areas with population of 65,000 greater.

For Group Quarters (GQ), sampling is also used.   GQ believed to have less than 15 residents are sampled just like Housing Units (HU).  Larger GQ are sub-sampled into groups of 10 residents, with 1/40 of these groups interviewed each month.  For a GQ with 400 residents, 10 would be interviewed each month.  The operator of the GQ provides a list of the residents to the census bureau, then the census bureau selects those to be interviewed.  The interview is done in person, while for ordinary households, the initial contact is by mail.

During the early part of the decade, only tests of the ACS were run.  2005 was the first year for full nation-wide implementation for housing units.  My guess is that the Census Bureau decided it was better to get the full sample for GQ rather than the more specialize GQ population (which is 2.8% of the population according to the 2000 Census).

2.0 m in correctional institutions.
1.7 m in nursing home.
0.4 m other institutions.

2.0 m dormitories
0.4 m barracks
1.3 m other non-institutional

[??????????]

I do not approve at all of removing questions from the census forms. This is very important information regarding the history of our nation and also helps us amateur genealogists.  

[Tender Branson]

WASHINGTON - The Census Bureau wants immigration agents to suspend enforcement raids during the 2010 census so the government can better count illegal immigrants.

Census Issues Clarification on 2010 Census and Law Enforcement

“The Census Bureau has not requested that the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency refrain from enforcing immigration laws. While previous Administrations sought to have law enforcement raids curtailed somewhat to help obtain greater accuracy, we respect ICE's statement that they will not suspend raids even if a decision were made to ask them to do so. The Census Bureau fully recognizes that times have changed, with new challenges facing immigration authorities, and Census will change with those times.”

So what if a Democrat wins next year and asks the immigration enforcement agencies to suspend the raids ? Is it likely and is it binding ? And how would the result look like if the raids were halted ?

I suppose there will be a total census count of 305-310 Mio. people if the raids are not suspended and about 310-315 Mio. if the raids are suspended.

[Tender Branson]

And btw, I never actually said it was the responsibility of the Census Bureau to report illegal immigrants.  You misinterpreted my meaning when I said "I hope they increase the illegal immigrant raids in 2010."  When I say "they" I of course mean the immigration agents of the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement branch of the Department of Homeland Security.  Because if they increase their raids there will not only be less illegal immigrants, there will also be less illegal immigrants willing to cooperate with Census officials and thus less will be counted.  The hopeful outcome being that illegal immigrants will have a negligible affect on apportionment of congressional seats and electoral votes.

I see it differently. Why should they (raid officials) round up more immigrants just because its census time, if census workers aren´t allowed to give them any information when they just counted a non-citizen ? I´m sure that they won´t capture more illegals during census than on normal days.

The more illegal immigrants are accurately counted, the greater the chances are for the immigration agencies to track them. If you don´t know where they are, how should you effectively find them ? For example if there´s a jump in non-citizens in lets say a Texan border county from 20% in 2000 to 40% in 2010, the raid agencies would focus more on raids in that county. If the number stays at 20% in 2010 they would not ...