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Author Topic: FOX cost Gore the election  (Read 7623 times)
Akno21
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« on: July 26, 2004, 06:56:27 am »
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I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.
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ATFFL
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2004, 09:34:44 am »
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I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.
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Jake
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2004, 09:55:42 am »
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Really, just let it go. George Bush was elected president. Al Gore wasn't.  I'm not to sure Outfoxed is the most credible source of info, beings that it was put out w/ Moveon.orgs help.
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2004, 10:03:37 am »
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I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Absolutely nothing, indeed. Also, notice that the guy who made that decision was a close relative of Bush's.

Quote
I suggest the democrats move on, its over.
That's obviously true. It's definitely way too late to change anything about it.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2004, 10:06:34 am »
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To my Democratic fans, do AMERICA a favor and accept that, nearly 4 years later, you lost the 2000 Presidential election. And its more than Florida, it's Tennessee. If you guys could only win Gore's HOME STATE. The state that elected him Senator and went for Clinton twice. All you had to do was win there and even if Bush got Florida, Tennessee would have been enough for Gore to win. But guess what? Neither Tennessee nor Florida wanted Gore. You lost. It's done.
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2004, 10:06:45 am »
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I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Absolutely nothing, indeed. Also, notice that the guy who made that decision was a close relative of Bush's.


One guy?  The vote was counted by hundreds if not thousands of people all across the state.  All of them sent their totals to Kathryn Harris, who added them up and certified them then passed the results on to the legislature and JEB.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2004, 10:10:51 am »
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I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Absolutely nothing, indeed. Also, notice that the guy who made that decision was a close relative of Bush's.


One guy?  The vote was counted by hundreds if not thousands of people all across the state.  All of them sent their totals to Kathryn Harris, who added them up and certified them then passed the results on to the legislature and JEB.
Relax -  I was talking merely of the decision to call Florida for Bush and declare the election decided by FOX News.
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2004, 10:49:00 am »
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I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.

you are correct: it is over.  However, the FACT is that Gore had MORE VOTES.  Just making sure you know the FACTS.

The point of the thread is valid, however, although it may not have changed the result (we'll never really know that one).  The biggest impact may have been the impact of Gore "seeming" to be the loser, before that was clear, causing the perception of him to be more negative.

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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2004, 11:11:58 am »
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I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.

you are correct: it is over.  However, the FACT is that Gore had MORE VOTES.  Just making sure you know the FACTS.

The point of the thread is valid, however, although it may not have changed the result (we'll never really know that one).  The biggest impact may have been the impact of Gore "seeming" to be the loser, before that was clear, causing the perception of him to be more negative.



No, Bush had more votes in every credible count by a variety of organizations.

More people may have gone to the polls intending to vote for Gore, but if they are unable to figure out a ballot and too proud to ask for help, they forfeit their right to vote.

The state being called for Gore also kept people in the panhandle from voting.  No one knows how many people with the intent to vote for Bush stayed home or left the line at a polling place because they heard the state was over.  They also forfeit their right to vote.

In the end, Florida was a mess for a variety of reasons.
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King
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2004, 01:26:23 pm »
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Republicans need to start something about 2000 against MoveOn.org

DemocratsMoveOn.org
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2004, 01:29:52 pm »
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Republicans need to start something about 2000 against MoveOn.org

DemocratsMoveOn.org

yeah because apparently after nearly four years they still can't accept defeat. So sad isn't it?
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2004, 04:03:30 pm »
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To my Democratic fans, do AMERICA a favor and accept that, nearly 4 years later, you lost the 2000 Presidential election. And its more than Florida, it's Tennessee. If you guys could only win Gore's HOME STATE. The state that elected him Senator and went for Clinton twice. All you had to do was win there and even if Bush got Florida, Tennessee would have been enough for Gore to win. But guess what? Neither Tennessee nor Florida wanted Gore. You lost. It's done.

I agree. It was all Gore's fault.
Yes, Florida was a mess and it shouldn't have happened the way it did (and hopefully nothing like that will be repeated), but.. Gore should have won his home state! and NH and WV, and even NV!
Given the state of the economy back then, Clinton's approval ratings, etc., the defeat can only be explained by Gore's incompetence.
Even if I could also write dozens of reasons why I believe W has been a bad president, Gore proved that he was not up to it either (for a sample, just look at his great gratitude towards Lieberman by betraying him and endorsing Dean).
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Akno21
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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2004, 04:04:04 pm »
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I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.

you are correct: it is over.  However, the FACT is that Gore had MORE VOTES.  Just making sure you know the FACTS.

The point of the thread is valid, however, although it may not have changed the result (we'll never really know that one).  The biggest impact may have been the impact of Gore "seeming" to be the loser, before that was clear, causing the perception of him to be more negative.



More people may have gone to the polls intending to vote for Gore, but if they are unable to figure out a ballot and too proud to ask for help, they forfeit their right to vote.


O, so now Republicans want to discriminate against dumb people? You guys are really elitist.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2004, 04:10:06 pm »
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To my Democratic fans, do AMERICA a favor and accept that, nearly 4 years later, you lost the 2000 Presidential election. And its more than Florida, it's Tennessee. If you guys could only win Gore's HOME STATE. The state that elected him Senator and went for Clinton twice. All you had to do was win there and even if Bush got Florida, Tennessee would have been enough for Gore to win. But guess what? Neither Tennessee nor Florida wanted Gore. You lost. It's done.

I agree. It was all Gore's fault.
Yes, Florida was a mess and it shouldn't have happened the way it did (and hopefully nothing like that will be repeated), but.. Gore should have won his home state! and NH and WV, and even NV!
Given the state of the economy back then, Clinton's approval ratings, etc., the defeat can only be explained by Gore's incompetence.
Even if I could also write dozens of reasons why I believe W has been a bad president, Gore proved that he was not up to it either (for a sample, just look at his great gratitude towards Lieberman by betraying him and endorsing Dean).

I think Lieberman cost Gore the election.  If Gore hadn't made the mistake of selecting that guy, he would be president today.  Gore realized how poor a choice Lieberman was, and endorsed his choice in 2004.

By the way, Gore received hundreds of thousands MORE votes than Bush.  You all know this, but when I said Gore got more votes previously, I was told I was wrong.  Gore got more votes.  This is NOT in dispute.  Whether he got more votes in FL is unclear.

I've heard MANY times on this board that "every recount proved Bush won".  This is not true either.  Many did show Bush won; some showed Gore won.  Of course it's all moot since the U.S. Supreme Court decided there wasn't enough time for a proper recount.
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ATFFL
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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2004, 05:11:00 pm »
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I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.

you are correct: it is over.  However, the FACT is that Gore had MORE VOTES.  Just making sure you know the FACTS.

The point of the thread is valid, however, although it may not have changed the result (we'll never really know that one).  The biggest impact may have been the impact of Gore "seeming" to be the loser, before that was clear, causing the perception of him to be more negative.



More people may have gone to the polls intending to vote for Gore, but if they are unable to figure out a ballot and too proud to ask for help, they forfeit their right to vote.


O, so now Republicans want to discriminate against dumb people? You guys are really elitist.

Who made the confusing ballot?

If you do not understand tha ballot and do not ask for help you do not get to complain if you screw up.  You had the chance to do it right and blew it.  No, you do not get to go back and fix it.

And I love how my view represents all Republicans.  I had no clue I was so influential.  Fear my power over the party!

Since you ignore the effect of the early call I can only assume Democrats* would like to ignore that.  

* Possibly just you.
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« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2004, 05:56:53 pm »
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I was watching "Outfoxed" and some guy said something completely true, IMHO. He said that FOX's and then the other networks decisions to call Florida for Bush at 2 AM even though you really couldn't tell from the data, led to a perception throughout the legal battle that Bush was the current winner and Gore was trying to knock him off. That perception may have hurt Gore more than any legal mistake or something of the sort.

The fact that Bush had more votes had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I suggest the democrats move on, its over.

you are correct: it is over.  However, the FACT is that Gore had MORE VOTES.  Just making sure you know the FACTS.

The point of the thread is valid, however, although it may not have changed the result (we'll never really know that one).  The biggest impact may have been the impact of Gore "seeming" to be the loser, before that was clear, causing the perception of him to be more negative.



More people may have gone to the polls intending to vote for Gore, but if they are unable to figure out a ballot and too proud to ask for help, they forfeit their right to vote.


O, so now Republicans want to discriminate against dumb people? You guys are really elitist.

Well, if you are too dumb to use the voting machine correctly, I really don't want you choosing who runs the country.
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2004, 04:26:58 am »
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I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.
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Akno21
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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2004, 04:36:16 pm »
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I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again. Always pray Katherine Harris gets run over by a car. Never, ever forget.

(Just kidding about the Harris thing)
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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2004, 05:05:09 pm »
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I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again. Always pray Katherine Harris gets run over by a car. Never, ever forget.

(Just kidding about the Harris thing)

God, you're right. I mean, where in the hell did Katherine Harris get the nerve to do something as ridiculous as follow the letter of the law...
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2004, 05:08:23 pm »
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I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again.
 

Yes always remember. Remember counting the ballots over and over and over and over...and remember after ALL THOSE RECOUNTS....Gore still lost the state of Florida and the election.
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2004, 05:26:44 pm »
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I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again.
 

Yes always remember. Remember counting the ballots over and over and over and over...and remember after ALL THOSE RECOUNTS....Gore still lost the state of Florida and the election.

Phil,

Yes, they seem to conveniently leave out the FACT that every news agency that "counted" the ballots after the Supreme Court decision reached the conclusion that Bush would have won by a somewhat comfortable margin. This little detail seems to get left out of their "Bush stole the election" horsesh*t.
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Akno21
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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2004, 06:06:20 am »
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I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again.
 

Yes always remember. Remember counting the ballots over and over and over and over...and remember after ALL THOSE RECOUNTS....Gore still lost the state of Florida and the election.

You guys are sort of making my point. By calling Florida for Bush at 2 AM, and then retracting it, it led to the perception that Bush was ahead, and Gore was trying to catch up to him. The state was too close to call the entire time.
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jfern
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« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2004, 03:27:23 am »
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I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again. Always pray Katherine Harris gets run over by a car. Never, ever forget.

(Just kidding about the Harris thing)

God, you're right. I mean, where in the hell did Katherine Harris get the nerve to do something as ridiculous as follow the letter of the law...

What letter of the law?
Some counties never had a recount.
Meanwhile all sorts of illegal absentee ballots were counted. Some people admitted to mailing ballots after the election.
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jfern
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« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2004, 03:30:17 am »
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I will NOT get over an election stealing, ever. If Gore had stolen the election, you would not be over it, so why should us Democrats bend over backwards? We will never forget Florida 2000.

Never Forget. Always Remember. Always make sure we don't experience the same pain again.
 

Yes always remember. Remember counting the ballots over and over and over and over...and remember after ALL THOSE RECOUNTS....Gore still lost the state of Florida and the election.

You guys are sort of making my point. By calling Florida for Bush at 2 AM, and then retracting it, it led to the perception that Bush was ahead, and Gore was trying to catch up to him. The state was too close to call the entire time.

FL was called for Bush because a Diebold electronic voting machine gave Al Gore -16,000 votes in one precinct. This was fixed in the results available online, but not in the results used by the media to call the election. For half an hour, Al Gore was down by only 50,000 votes, with only Al Gore's  best counties yet to fully report, and the media thought the election was over.  I kept checking all the media to see if they had retracted the call for Bush. It took them half an hour. You can't make stuff like this up! Truth is really stranger than fiction. Diebold and the media get a grade of 'F'.
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« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2004, 02:32:19 pm »
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What letter of the law?

Err..Florida law regarding the timeframe allowed for recounts?
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