National Liberal Coalition Policy Discussion
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Verily
Cuivienen
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« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2007, 06:29:58 PM »
« edited: September 07, 2007, 11:36:02 AM by Verily »

Here's what we've got so far, I think:


Immigration
The National Liberal Coalition supports the expansion of legal immigration, especially the refocusing of immigration away from family connections and towards desire to enter Atlasia. The National Coalition believes that illegal immigration is primarily the by-product of unnecessarily restrictive immigration laws, and therefore also believes that illegal immigration that would continue after legal immigration is been eased is of a far less benign nature than currently. Because of this, in tandem with easier legal immigration, the National Liberal Coalition supports expanded border security measures, though it opposes the expensive posturing of constructing a wall.

Trade
The National Liberal Coalition supports the expansion of Atlasia’s international trade connections, and advocates free trade agreements with other interested parties, with reasonable exceptions.

Taxation
The National Liberal Coalition is largely supportive of the current taxation system. We are always willing to consider strategies to reduce the tax burden on the middle and lower classes, but out-and-out tax cuts can be fiscally irresponsible, and the National Liberal Coalition would prefer to balance the budget before offering tax breaks.

Religious Freedom
In a public school, court, or other government environment, the National Liberal Coalition supports the desires of the individual to participate in religious activities. However, the National Liberal Coalition opposes any and all spending in such areas directed towards religious belief or the installation of any overtly religious iconography in said government buildings.

Labor
The National Liberal Coalition is broadly supportive of the status quo in labor issues, except for the issue of the minimum wage, where the National Liberal Coalition opposes the decision of Bono v Atlasia and advocates the return of the minimum wage and its indexing to inflation.

Electoral Reform
The National Liberal Coalition is broadly supportive of efforts to reform the voting system in such a way as to make it more democratic and to encourage personal and party participation while not currently endorsing any particular plan to do so.

Euthanasia
The National Liberal Coalition supports the legalization of euthanasia through living wills or active consent.




Now, let's move on to more issues. Next up: education. This includes voucher programs, education funding, district sizes, etc.
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Colin
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« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2007, 10:09:55 PM »

Well I don't really agree with the Labor section of the platform. I think our regional minimum wages have worked fine and allows for the great flexibility in the labour market between the different regions. It allows each region to set its minimum wage at the level that it deems to be appropriate. Often a federal minimum wage is either inefficient at protecting wages in high wage areas, because going wages for even unskilled jobs are above the minimum, and hurts areas were the prevailing wages would come in under the federally set minimum.

I mean I don't really care whether you take it out or anything, I've never agreed with any party platform in Atlasian history, but I'm just throwing my opinion out there.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2007, 10:56:39 PM »

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what each individual regional minimum wage is?  Has every region even set one?
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Verily
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« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2007, 11:11:42 PM »

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what each individual regional minimum wage is?  Has every region even set one?

Southeast: $7.00, age 18+, $5.75, age 15-17, both indexed to inflation in Jan. 2006
Northeast: No law recorded, but, then again, no laws after October 2005 are recorded
Pacific: $7.00, indexed to inflation in Jan. 2006
Midwest: $5.75, indexed to inflation in Feb. 2006
Mideast: Absurdly complex (read more)
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2007, 12:14:40 AM »

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what each individual regional minimum wage is?  Has every region even set one?

Southeast: $7.00, age 18+, $5.75, age 15-17, both indexed to inflation in Jan. 2006
Northeast: No law recorded, but, then again, no laws after October 2005 are recorded
Pacific: $7.00, indexed to inflation in Jan. 2006
Midwest: $5.75, indexed to inflation in Feb. 2006
Mideast: Absurdly complex (read more)

Perhaps, in the short term, the NLC can back an I&R push to get a minimum wage law on the books in our own Northeast Region, then?  We probably have enough votes to pass one based on NLC members alone.
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Colin
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« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2007, 08:17:14 PM »


Northeast: No law recorded, but, then again, no laws after October 2005 are recorded

There is no minimum wage law in the Northeast. One was proposed but was voted down by the voters of the Northeast.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2007, 10:08:31 PM »

Southeast: $7.00, age 18+, $5.75, age 15-17, both indexed to inflation in Jan. 2006
Northeast: No law recorded, but, then again, no laws after October 2005 are recorded
Pacific: $7.00, indexed to inflation in Jan. 2006
Midwest: $5.75, indexed to inflation in Feb. 2006
Mideast: Absurdly complex (read more)

The Pacific minimum wage has been raised to $7.50.

The minimum wage in the District of Columbia is $7.20 and indexed to annual inflation.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2007, 11:21:57 AM »

Verily,

The language regarding tax cuts...any possibility we could modify it from "...are often fiscally irresponsible..." to "...can be fiscally irresponsible..." or something a little less strong?
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Verily
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« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2007, 11:36:12 AM »

Verily,

The language regarding tax cuts...any possibility we could modify it from "...are often fiscally irresponsible..." to "...can be fiscally irresponsible..." or something a little less strong?

Done.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2007, 11:38:28 AM »

Verily,

The language regarding tax cuts...any possibility we could modify it from "...are often fiscally irresponsible..." to "...can be fiscally irresponsible..." or something a little less strong?

Done.

Thanks.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2007, 06:40:08 PM »

Now that we are the "plurality" party in the Senate, I figured it'd be worth bumping the thread here.  It'd be nice to get something hammered out before the October elections get into full swing.
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Verily
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« Reply #61 on: September 10, 2007, 06:56:40 PM »

Okay, well, we have education up now.

I've considered quite a few radical reforms to education in the past, namely some way of equalizing public education spending per student nationwide. (Clearly pre-adult students are not responsible for their economic problems, so it seems reasonable to enact what its detractors might call "socialist education".)

Looking at this on a federal level, such equality would require either the pooling of local property and other taxes spent on schooling or a federal income tax to replace such taxes (then distributed evenly across school districts, with spending at their discretion). Unfortunately, the federal government cannot step in and repeal local property taxes, etc. that are currently used to fund schools, so the tax would be considered an additional tax instead of a replacement tax.

I would also not like to forbid the collection of property taxes to increase school funds (temporarily, for an expansion, or permanently), but I would like to make most funding for education come from a national education fund supplied by income tax rather than property tax or sales tax.

On other issues, I generally support merit-based vouchers, with the exception of vouchers for explicitly religious schools.

I would also generally like to encourage the consolidation of school districts as larger high schools are more able to provide diverse curricula.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2007, 06:27:15 PM »

Okay, well, we have education up now.

I've considered quite a few radical reforms to education in the past, namely some way of equalizing public education spending per student nationwide. (Clearly pre-adult students are not responsible for their economic problems, so it seems reasonable to enact what its detractors might call "socialist education".)

Looking at this on a federal level, such equality would require either the pooling of local property and other taxes spent on schooling or a federal income tax to replace such taxes (then distributed evenly across school districts, with spending at their discretion). Unfortunately, the federal government cannot step in and repeal local property taxes, etc. that are currently used to fund schools, so the tax would be considered an additional tax instead of a replacement tax.

I would also not like to forbid the collection of property taxes to increase school funds (temporarily, for an expansion, or permanently), but I would like to make most funding for education come from a national education fund supplied by income tax rather than property tax or sales tax.

On other issues, I generally support merit-based vouchers, with the exception of vouchers for explicitly religious schools.

I would also generally like to encourage the consolidation of school districts as larger high schools are more able to provide diverse curricula.

With respect to education, my feeling is that the country would benefit from "public school vouchers."  Different from the traditional idea of vouchers, these would allow students to attend any public school in their state.  This would allow an unprecedented level of specialization in high schools, vocational programs, and would give kids who are stuck in underperforming schools (but want to learn) a chance to realize their full potential.

The good schools will get more public funds and will be able to expand their offerings and take in more students.  The poorly performing schools will be forced to make dramatic, real changes or face having their doors shuttered.

These vouchers would not be redeemable in private schools or religious schools, though I strongly feel those tuitions should be fully tax exempt.

And we need to work towards eliminating the inherently regressive property taxes.  School districts should impose local income taxes to fund schools instead.

I think most people can probably agree at this point that school funding is virtually unrelated to the performance of the students who attend the school.  We've spent the past 20 or 30 years trying to fix these urban schools by just throwing money at the problem, and that hasn't worked in the slightest.  It's clear we need some new ideas.

And the Senate, in my opinion, just took a massive step backwards by preventing the Southeast—an area in desperate need of educational innovation, judging from test scores and literacy rates—from experimenting with new ideas.
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« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2007, 06:39:41 PM »

I hope we won't extend funding to faith-based schools like the Campaign Messer-Upper Champion here wants to do. Smiley Equally, that all public education is entirely secular in curriculum. Those are mainly my points of concerns.

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Verily
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« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2007, 09:31:25 PM »

What Moderate says all seems reasonable. I think we have enough to do a brief summary of an education platform; I'll get that up later tonight or tomorrow.

Next: health care.

I am personally in favor of universal health care. I feel that not only the personal benefits, but also the economic benefits of a healthy and well-cared-for population often go unnoticed. It increases worker productivity and improves the ability of the middle class to tread economic water.

Most important is universal health care for children, who, as I argued with regards to education, do not have the luxury of being in control of their own economic fates. (Whether adults control their economic fates or not are a subject for a different debate.) I am currently considering a universal child health care bill to propose before the Senate, and I think (hope?) we can all rally behind that idea.

For other health care issues, the debate often comes up of personal responsibility. Do we want the obese consuming a great deal of the health care budget? Do we want the same of smokers? I am open to ideas that would allow us to institute universal health care while retaining some degree of personal responsibility in health; I have mulled over many ideas in the past and come up with nothing sufficiently adequate.

Any other health care-related discussion is also welcome. I would like to encourage the members of the NLC to actively participate in the creation of this platform; it's your party!
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« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2007, 11:06:12 PM »

What Moderate says all seems reasonable. I think we have enough to do a brief summary of an education platform; I'll get that up later tonight or tomorrow.

Next: health care.

I am personally in favor of universal health care. I feel that not only the personal benefits, but also the economic benefits of a healthy and well-cared-for population often go unnoticed. It increases worker productivity and improves the ability of the middle class to tread economic water.

Most important is universal health care for children, who, as I argued with regards to education, do not have the luxury of being in control of their own economic fates. (Whether adults control their economic fates or not are a subject for a different debate.) I am currently considering a universal child health care bill to propose before the Senate, and I think (hope?) we can all rally behind that idea.

For other health care issues, the debate often comes up of personal responsibility. Do we want the obese consuming a great deal of the health care budget? Do we want the same of smokers? I am open to ideas that would allow us to institute universal health care while retaining some degree of personal responsibility in health; I have mulled over many ideas in the past and come up with nothing sufficiently adequate.

Any other health care-related discussion is also welcome. I would like to encourage the members of the NLC to actively participate in the creation of this platform; it's your party!

I think you bring up an interesting idea here.  I am unsure how to account for overweight Atlasians, but so far as smokers go, I think it's entirely fair to assess a health-based tax (proceeds dedicated towards a national health care plan) on things such as tobacco, based on their relative impact on the health of the user.  Basically, putting money aside with each cigarette to pay for the health consequences of each cigarette.

I suppose something similar could be done with food, but coming up with a formula is much more challenging.  Something based on caloric content?  Fat content?  Neither seem "perfect."

In the meantime, I will fully support any bill to extend health care coverage to kids.
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Verily
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« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2007, 10:15:10 AM »

Good point with the cigarette tax. Perhaps at least fast food could also get such a health tax to help pay for health costs? It's not a fool-proof method, but fast food is relatively simple to tax whereas a strange formula on raw foods based on caloric content would become hopelessly snarled.

It's important to stress that this isn't a sin tax, it's a health tax to pay for the extra costs incurred on the health system.
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« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2007, 09:07:20 PM »

Good point with the cigarette tax. Perhaps at least fast food could also get such a health tax to help pay for health costs? It's not a fool-proof method, but fast food is relatively simple to tax whereas a strange formula on raw foods based on caloric content would become hopelessly snarled.

It's important to stress that this isn't a sin tax, it's a health tax to pay for the extra costs incurred on the health system.

Fast food (as separate from restaurants), and perhaps a few select items such as candy and non-diet carbonated beverages.  When I lost 100 pounds seven years ago, it was almost entirely due to dropping Coke from my diet.

It's important to stress that this isn't a sin tax, it's a health tax to pay for the extra costs incurred on the health system.

Correct.  The money is for the future benefit of the smoker (and those affected by the second hand smoke).
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2007, 10:21:35 PM »

Actually - it's been shown that if you consume copious quantities of diet drinks the effect on the body isn't very different to consuming the non-diet versions - since the artificial sweetener can have the same physiological effect on the body as sugar.

Which is why when I decided to lose weight I kept away from diet drinks.
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« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2007, 03:55:54 AM »

Actually - it's been shown that if you consume copious quantities of diet drinks the effect on the body isn't very different to consuming the non-diet versions - since the artificial sweetener can have the same physiological effect on the body as sugar.

Which is why when I decided to lose weight I kept away from diet drinks.

Well, I just switched to water and sports drinks because aspartame tastes like rat poison.
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Verily
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« Reply #70 on: November 15, 2007, 11:34:14 PM »

Well, I'd like to get a little bit more input about the health care program before including some semblance of it in the party platform that is (slowly) coming together.

I've lost my train of thought as to where we going to go next. In the interim, I'd like to hear some suggestions from party members as to important issues in their minds that we should address.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #71 on: November 15, 2007, 11:37:13 PM »

Depending on how the referendum plays out and how the senate gets to the idea of US-Atlasian law, I'd like to see some of our members put some cases in the regional and nationwide courts.
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Verily
Cuivienen
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« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2007, 12:12:20 AM »

Depending on how the referendum plays out and how the senate gets to the idea of US-Atlasian law, I'd like to see some of our members put some cases in the regional and nationwide courts.

What sort of issues do you mean? Clearly the court system in Atlasia is atrophied simply due to a lack of cases, but what sort of cases could we bring? Atlasian government doesn't lend itself to a lot of court cases from forum members.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2007, 12:30:49 AM »

Depending on how the referendum plays out and how the senate gets to the idea of US-Atlasian law, I'd like to see some of our members put some cases in the regional and nationwide courts.

What sort of issues do you mean? Clearly the court system in Atlasia is atrophied simply due to a lack of cases, but what sort of cases could we bring? Atlasian government doesn't lend itself to a lot of court cases from forum members.

Well, two different scenarios

1) we eventually merge the US into atlasia...then I think the cases can be endless

2) If we do the separate thing (Only God would know why), then someone might try and get creative, and try to push some bounds...suing on behalf of a fictional citizen etc...that procedural aspect could be a neat issue...and who knows from there...
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Verily
Cuivienen
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« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2007, 10:42:19 PM »

Depending on how the referendum plays out and how the senate gets to the idea of US-Atlasian law, I'd like to see some of our members put some cases in the regional and nationwide courts.

What sort of issues do you mean? Clearly the court system in Atlasia is atrophied simply due to a lack of cases, but what sort of cases could we bring? Atlasian government doesn't lend itself to a lot of court cases from forum members.

Well, two different scenarios

1) we eventually merge the US into atlasia...then I think the cases can be endless

2) If we do the separate thing (Only God would know why), then someone might try and get creative, and try to push some bounds...suing on behalf of a fictional citizen etc...that procedural aspect could be a neat issue...and who knows from there...

I certainly hope strongly for the former, but I know it doesn't have broad support within the party.

Personally, I would say that the best way to resolve the issue would be, not something passed by the Senate, but a court ruling. Say, have someone take issue with a certain pre-2004 US law, bring it to the Supreme Court and have the Court decide. Speaking of which, there's been no word from Colin about a Justice to replace TexasGurl, has there?
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