Your Ideology? The Poll

[Gustaf]

After quite a bit of consideration, I chose the Socialist option. While I agree with Marxist economic theory, and would be the first to hail the Soviet Union as a model of success, Communism is too reliant on authoritarian social stands to achieve its ends.

I would prefer to see some compromise on my economic stands to protect civil liberty rather than getting them in action, in toto, at the price of dissent being quashed.

The Soivet Union a success?? I am not gonna destroy this thread by discussing it, we could make another therad for that, but I want to state my complete disagreement there.

I am supposing that liberalism is American liberalism, social liberalism in the European vocabulary. I haven't made up my mind yet.

[Gustaf]

I truly hope that I haven’t misled anybody with my Christian Democracy/Traditional Conservatism alternative. I thought it as European form of conservatism, which is fairly more moderate on economy issues (Acceptance of governments role as solver of some problems of society) My alternative Conservatism is intended more as traditional American republican conservatism which favours very limited role of government.

Hughento. I can't see that there is big difference between social democracy and socialism. There are both socialist and social democrats parties in European moderate Left. In Scandinavia, Germany, Austria, Netherlands these parties are called as social democrats. (I would consider UK Labour Party to this category too) In catholic Southern Europe moderate left parties are called as socialist. General image is that social democrats are little bit more moderate than socialists. However, all these parties are members of Socialistic International and they have common group in European Parliament. All these parties support market economy nowadays. Socialism as meaning of governments ownership of businesses is really dead. Nationalization is communist politics.

htmldon. I think that moderate-ism is too vague term to describe an ideology. There are people who call themselves as moderate leftists, as moderate conservatives, as moderate liberal.... Too fuzzy. I also see classical liberalism and libertarianism almost identifical alternatives.

Gustaf. Yep. My alternative liberalism is American liberalism, social liberalism in European vocabulary.  

I think the poll should be changed, including more moderate beliefs, I don't think there are that many fascists, anarchists or Communists on this forum, even though I agree that these are major idelogies. I would like an option to be "liberal conservatism", b/c that's how I usually describe myself.

[Gustaf]

Gustaf. Liberal conservatism sounds good, but it is paradox!

There must be room for alternatives like fascism, anarchism or communism. I know many these kind of people in Finland. They walk among us!

What kind of people do you know???

Liberal conservatism CAN work, but I agree that they will sometimes contradict each other. But on those issues I tend to be unsure or without an opinion, so it still works out!

[Gustaf]

I'm a Christian Socialist.

We know, but what didi you vote for in the poll then?

[Gustaf]

Gustaf. Liberal conservatism sounds good, but it is paradox!

There must be room for alternatives like fascism, anarchism or communism. I know many these kind of people in Finland. They walk among us!

I call myself a Radical democrat. (small d, nothing to do with the party.)
That means increasing Democratic control to any field where it's
at all feasible.
If you think it out to the end, it's essentially non-Marxist socialism, or Anarchism without less optimism and more pragmatism...

That would not be anarcho-liberalism then, I suppose...

[Gustaf]

I never understood what 'Christian Socialism' meant.

Socialism based on Christian values, or at least that's what I thought. It would be separate from "urban, PC, progressive, liberalism". More an ideological difference than a symbolic one, I would say. It could of course mean some sort of mixture of social conservatism and economic socialism, but RP hasn't struck me like that kind of guy.

In Sweden "Christian socialist" would mean "Progressive Secular Socialist"!

[Gustaf]

In U.S terms I am/would be classed as a left wing populist.
I think that dealing with problems like poverty is more importent than pointless wedge issues.

For a definition of Christian Socialism try: www.christiansocialist.org.uk

I voted Socialist/Social Democrat on the poll.

OK, thanks, I think I understand the context of it now.

[Gustaf]

I don't really like religion being dragged into politics.

Well, if it's part of one's belief system it's natural.

[Gustaf]

I find it very difficult to call Christianity and Socialism logical coalition partners. Karl Marx, the man every Socialist must ultimately acknowledge as the philosopher whose ideas are most influential towards their own (even though I'm personally more interested in Marcuse, Lukacs, and Althusser), felt that religion was an inherently capitalistic institution which gave support to an unfair hierarchy. He also identified Christianity as the worst offender. I know Realpolitik feels that the first Socialists were various dissenters who formed communal societies, but I would ask you to name any Socialist/Communist theorist outside of the Christian Socialist movement whoever claimed them to be an influence. I know Keir Hardie became a Christian at George Lansbury's suggestion, but his influence is dwarfed compared with Sidney and Beatrice Webb and other members of the Fabian Society, and it's difficult to say that his views were fundamentally based upon Christianity, considering that he held them when he was secularist. Christianity and Socialism are strange bedfellows indeed.

I don't think Marx should be viewed as the fouding father of socialism, only of Communism. My dad would go nuts if someone suggested that idea to him...

[Gustaf]

I find it very difficult to believe that Socialism could have developed without Marx. While he himself called his theory Communism, it was far from the fare offered by Stalin, Mao, or Enver Hoxha. I would consider myself a pure Marxist, ideologically. I don't wish to formally associate myself with either Socialism or Communism, because, truth be told, I wouldn't necessarily vote for either one of them down the line.

I would be well suited to form my own political organization, with a name like the Progressive Workers Party (which would be ironic, considering most of my members would be in academia), or the Liberal Communist Party. Yet, this is not viable.

I cannot vote for the Socialist ticket this year, because it was recently discovered that the Socialist candidate personally supports the ban on Partial-Birth Abortion. This is appalling to the vast majority of the party, and there is a significant movement to force a resignation. However, it is hard to say that I can in good conscience support a party that would let a mistake like this slip through the cracks.

I am sad to say that Marxism has little chance in America, considering how the power structure has brainwashed the working class to accept the petty trifles of consumerism, and exploit the issue of Atheism to turn progressives against it. We are a religious country, and a greedy one, and all of these things don't mix.

I henceforth decide to support the Democratic party, for it an established entity with demonstrated power, and if we bore from within, we can turn it into a laboratory for radical thought.

Oh, there were others, this guy whose name begins with an L and was killed in a fight over a woman? I think he was French, or German.

[Gustaf]

I find it very difficult to believe that Socialism could have developed without Marx. While he himself called his theory Communism, it was far from the fare offered by Stalin, Mao, or Enver Hoxha. I would consider myself a pure Marxist, ideologically. I don't wish to formally associate myself with either Socialism or Communism, because, truth be told, I wouldn't necessarily vote for either one of them down the line.

I would be well suited to form my own political organization, with a name like the Progressive Workers Party (which would be ironic, considering most of my members would be in academia), or the Liberal Communist Party. Yet, this is not viable.

I cannot vote for the Socialist ticket this year, because it was recently discovered that the Socialist candidate personally supports the ban on Partial-Birth Abortion. This is appalling to the vast majority of the party, and there is a significant movement to force a resignation. However, it is hard to say that I can in good conscience support a party that would let a mistake like this slip through the cracks.

I am sad to say that Marxism has little chance in America, considering how the power structure has brainwashed the working class to accept the petty trifles of consumerism, and exploit the issue of Atheism to turn progressives against it. We are a religious country, and a greedy one, and all of these things don't mix.

I henceforth decide to support the Democratic party, for it an established entity with demonstrated power, and if we bore from within, we can turn it into a laboratory for radical thought.

Oh, there were others, this guy whose name begins with an L and was killed in a fight over a woman? I think he was French, or German.

Lasalle?

[Gustaf]

Christianity and Socialism strange bedfellows, eh?
Ever read the Sermon on the Mount before?

Most religions stress equality to some degree, and my branch of Christianity more than most.

Marx was an excellent economist, but some of his theories were... a bit... wrong.

A bit yes...I always thought that reformist socialism, social democracy, proved that one of Marx fundamental ideas, the necessity of revolution, was wrong, and that kind of undermines him in my opinion.

[Gustaf]

44% of the people here are socialists?  where are they all?

That is seriously weird...

[Gustaf]

What's the difference between conservative and far-right conservative, in principle? Having both of these in an 8-option poll makes no sense.

[Gustaf]

Conservative. I'm a Federalist. George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Jay, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, etc.

You're also a protectionist (puke)

I'm an economic nationalist patriot. America First!  Our industrial base is eroding, factories are closing, and manufacturing jobs are moving overseas, and I refuse to stop supporting candidates who believe that we shouldn't worship at the altar of that golden globalism calf.

I can understand your point. We have same problem in Finland.

You got Nokia...

[Gustaf]

Conservative. I'm a Federalist. George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Jay, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, etc.

You're also a protectionist (puke)

I'm an economic nationalist patriot. America First!  Our industrial base is eroding, factories are closing, and manufacturing jobs are moving overseas, and I refuse to stop supporting candidates who believe that we shouldn't worship at the altar of that golden globalism calf.

I can understand your point. We have same problem in Finland.

You got Nokia...

Yes we do.

But high-tech industry is shifting to China, to Estonia etc. I fear that only research and development are staying.

Yeah, but western countries still have a lot of advantages. In the longer run it will all even out, as the poorer countries get richer and experience rising living standards their wages will rise to our levels. And they'll also get inflation  from the risig demand as people get more money.

[Gustaf]

Conservative. I'm a Federalist. George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Jay, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, etc.

You're also a protectionist (puke)

I'm an economic nationalist patriot. America First!  Our industrial base is eroding, factories are closing, and manufacturing jobs are moving overseas, and I refuse to stop supporting candidates who believe that we shouldn't worship at the altar of that golden globalism calf.

I can understand your point. We have same problem in Finland.

You got Nokia...

Yes we do.

But high-tech industry is shifting to China, to Estonia etc. I fear that only research and development are staying.

Yeah, but western countries still have a lot of advantages. In the longer run it will all even out, as the poorer countries get richer and experience rising living standards their wages will rise to our levels. And they'll also get inflation  from the risig demand as people get more money.

It is clear that in the long run globalization will benefit developing countries and all of us, but there also will be huge problems. Change is unavoidable, but it is also tough.

So right. But in economical matters it's often better to go along with it, rather than trying to fight it.

[Gustaf]

Conservative. I'm a Federalist. George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Jay, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, etc.

You're also a protectionist (puke)

I'm an economic nationalist patriot. America First!  Our industrial base is eroding, factories are closing, and manufacturing jobs are moving overseas, and I refuse to stop supporting candidates who believe that we shouldn't worship at the altar of that golden globalism calf.

I can understand your point. We have same problem in Finland.

You got Nokia...

Yes we do.

But high-tech industry is shifting to China, to Estonia etc. I fear that only research and development are staying.

Yeah, but western countries still have a lot of advantages. In the longer run it will all even out, as the poorer countries get richer and experience rising living standards their wages will rise to our levels. And they'll also get inflation  from the risig demand as people get more money.

It is clear that in the long run globalization will benefit developing countries and all of us, but there also will be huge problems. Change is unavoidable, but it is also tough.

So right. But in economical matters it's often better to go along with it, rather than trying to fight it.

No, if, for your children's futures,  you want to keep your nation strong, if you want to protect your way of life and your culture, you have a duty to fight.  

Fighting progress on economy leads nowhere. It's better to try and make the best out of the situation you have, imo.