Schroeder quits as party leader

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Now, now... Bush isn't linked to the Cosa Nostra...

[Gustaf]

The Christian Democrats of the 1st Republic were not really a party... more like a very, very, very big coalition of special interests... kind of like the LDP in Japan...

Or the Republicans...

Uhhh, acctually, that really describes the Democrats better.

I was just making a little joke, both American parties have a lot of special interest organisations behind them, though not as much as pre-1900 era, perhaps.

[Michael Z]

While we´re at... asked about the possibility of coalitions between the CDU and the Greens on state level Michael Glos, leader of the CSU regional group within the CDU/CSU parliamentary group, said today that he opposes coalitions with "eco-stalinists" and "former terrorists" like Fischer or Trittin (what the hell is an "eco-stalinist"?).

LOL, that's overreacting just a little. Didn't Kohl try similar (if not equally extreme) slurs against Schily and the Green Party in the 1998 election? I suppose it goes to show that negative campaigning doesn't always pay off.

[minionofmidas]

While we´re at... asked about the possibility of coalitions between the CDU and the Greens on state level Michael Glos, leader of the CSU regional group within the CDU/CSU parliamentary group, said today that he opposes coalitions with "eco-stalinists" and "former terrorists" like Fischer or Trittin (what the hell is an "eco-stalinist"?).

LOL, that's overreacting just a little. Didn't Kohl try similar (if not equally extreme) slurs against Schily and the Green Party in the 1998 election? I suppose it goes to show that negative campaigning doesn't always pay off.

Well, the "former terrorists" bit is part of CDU/FDP/CSU radical wing standard rhetoric. Glos always was a man for tough soundbites. Consider it part of his inofficial job description...Anyways it isn't a possibility because very few Greens would be ready to do that. Green/CDU coalitions on the local level (and there've been a few) have always caused collapses of the Green vote at the next poll.

[Gustaf]

While we´re at... asked about the possibility of coalitions between the CDU and the Greens on state level Michael Glos, leader of the CSU regional group within the CDU/CSU parliamentary group, said today that he opposes coalitions with "eco-stalinists" and "former terrorists" like Fischer or Trittin (what the hell is an "eco-stalinist"?).

LOL, that's overreacting just a little. Didn't Kohl try similar (if not equally extreme) slurs against Schily and the Green Party in the 1998 election? I suppose it goes to show that negative campaigning doesn't always pay off.

Well, the "former terrorists" bit is part of CDU/FDP/CSU radical wing standard rhetoric. Glos always was a man for tough soundbites. Consider it part of his inofficial job description...Anyways it isn't a possibility because very few Greens would be ready to do that. Green/CDU coalitions on the local level (and there've been a few) have always caused collapses of the Green vote at the next poll.

The leader of the Swedish Center Party got murdered by the media for referring to Fischer as a former terrorist.

[minionofmidas]

Sorry, I think I got some memories mixed up there...The standard jibe is the one about defending terrorists (aimed at Schily, Stroebele, Hessen's former attorney general Rupert von Plottnitz (Greens), all of whom did that, or sometimes just at the Green party).
I've heard Fischer called a former terrorist before, but it is well of the "acceptable" radar, or used to be.
Fischer was no terrorist, of course. But he definitely was a Street Fighting Man, and he and his friends did some kind of illegal militia training in the Taunus for a while, and some of these people later ended up in the Terrorist groups. Definitely Fischer was lucky never to have been banged up in jail (he spent nights in prison, but that's all. Heck, my father did the same.)

[Middle-aged Europe]

I can´t say much about Schily or Ströbele, but I think from the late 60ies until the mid-70ies Fischer was some sort of a left-wing extremist anarchist who opposed the "fascist police state" in West Germany as he saw it. But he was never a terrorist in the meaning of the word. He never blew things up or kidnapped/killed people or things like this.

I believe the major political turning point in his life was when a Air France plane was hijacked by a terrorist command in 1976 or so. And some of the terrorists involved in the hijacking were old "comrades" of Fischer. This event was so a major shock for Fischer that he broke with the violent left-wing movement and began to turn back to democracy.

[minionofmidas]

The term is "Sponti", ie one who believes in spontaneous action (rather than in having an organization, participating in elections etc)

[Gustaf]

I can´t say much about Schily or Ströbele, but I think from the late 60ies until the mid-70ies Fischer was some sort of a left-wing extremist anarchist who opposed the "fascist police state" in West Germany as he saw it. But he was never a terrorist in the meaning of the word. He never blew things up or kidnapped/killed people or things like this.

I believe the major political turning point in his life was when a Air France plane was hijacked by a terrorist command in 1976 or so. And some of the terrorists involved in the hijacking were old "comrades" of Fischer. This event was so a major shock for Fischer that he broke with the violent left-wing movement and began to turn back to democracy.

I seem to remember a picture of him and some others kicking a policeman?

[Gustaf]

As I said, Street Fighting Man...
It's not as if more policemen got kicked by lefties than the other way round...

Well, I wasn't implying that either...

[Michael Z]

As I said, Street Fighting Man...
It's not as if more policemen got kicked by lefties than the other way round...

Well, I wasn't implying that either...

We know you weren't, but a lot of conservatives are.

[minionofmidas]

As per 14 polls... there are state polls in Hamburg on 29th Feb, European Elections and state polls in Thuringia on 13th June, state polls in the Saarland on September fifth and in Brandenburg and Sachsen on 19th September. All the others would have to be local elections I reckon, which are not very important.

We may well see a change in Saxony. Apparently Milbradt himself secretly expects a SPD-PDS coalition to beat the CDU. The Hamburg elections should be interesting, especially now that the whole Schill soap opera is finally over and done with.

Btw, about Clement: I always thought he was a bit of a Chancellor-in-the-making? Or at least that's how the media seem to portay him.

Well, Hamburg...
1997
SPD 36,2
CDU 30,7
Greens 13,9
DVU 4,9 (right-wing extremist - that's just below the threshold to win seats)
StattPartei 3,8 (local outfit, SPD's partner in government 93-97)
FDP 3,5
others 7,0 (that seems awfully high to me, but I don't have any details)

These elections led to a Red-Green coalition.

2001
SPD 36,5
CDU 26,2
Schill 19,4 (the party was actually called Partei Rechtsstaatliche Offensive, Law and Order Offensive Party, but the official abbreviation was Schill)
Greens 8,5
FDP 5,1
others 4,3

This led to a CDU-Schill-FDP coalition, which recently collapsed

Last poll (margin of error for major parties: 4%points either way)
CDU 46
SPD 29
Greens 14
FDP 3,5
Schill 3 (his new shop)
pro 1,5 (the remainder of his old shop after they kicked him out)
others 3

That would be enough for von Beust to govern alone, but a red-green victory is easily inside the margin of error.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I seem to remember a picture of him and some others kicking a policeman?

Beating a policeman is neither appropriate nor legal, but it isn´t exactly something I would call "terrorism".

[Gustaf]

I seem to remember a picture of him and some others kicking a policeman?

Beating a policeman is neither appropriate nor legal, but it isn´t exactly something I would call "terrorism".

No, I wouldn't either, I was referring to the history of militant extremism of some members of the German left.