Breaking news: Rep. Paul Gilmore R-OH found dead in apartment

[Alcon]

You're not answering the question.  You're just covering your ears and saying "that's the way it's always been."  I'm not arguing there is harm in waiting.  But why does the tradition exist?

I suppose because rubbing one's hands together in opportunism reveals the person doing so to lack empathy and respect for not just the deceased, but the fact the deceased could have been anyone.  Is that a more adequate answer?  I wasn't arguing for tradition so much as intuition.

I suppose so, but there's a difference between enjoying someone's death out of political opportunism and analyzing the implications.  We shouldn't jump to conclusions over intentions.  If we are going to be so sensitive, which is fine, we should at least be consistent.

[HardRCafé]

It is generous to call what I objected to analysis.  It was tantamount to tearing open a birthday card and announcing there is no money inside and tossing it aside.

Dude's dead.  Whatever, unlikely pickup.

[Gabu]

It's not up to me - God wants everybody to go to heaven, but he can't be around sin.

Well, that sounds awfully elitist and snobbish.

[Alcon]

It is generous to call what I objected to analysis.  It was tantamount to tearing open a birthday card and announcing there is no money inside and tossing it aside.

Dude's dead.  Whatever, unlikely pickup.

I'm not arguing it was entirely tasteful, just that the idea of not analyzing a race for two to three weeks because it relates to a death is overkill.

[HardRCafé]

While initial speculation suggested that Rep. Paul Gillmor (R-Ohio) died of a heart attack last week, an autopsy concluded that the 68-year-old lawmaker likely passed away after falling down the stairs of his Arlington, Va., home.

[Gustaf]

Most people aren't "evil" and most people have someone close to them who loved them and for whom their death is a shattering blow. And that is why you pay them the respect of not bringing in other considerations, criticisms, etc right at the time of their death. 2-3 weeks may be a bot too much and it depends on the circumstances, but the thread about the person's death is premature. And whether one knew the person or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The respect for the dead is one of the cornerstones of civilization.

[Alcon]

Most people aren't "evil" and most people have someone close to them who loved them and for whom their death is a shattering blow. And that is why you pay them the respect of not bringing in other considerations, criticisms, etc right at the time of their death. 2-3 weeks may be a bot too much and it depends on the circumstances, but the thread about the person's death is premature. And whether one knew the person or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The respect for the dead is one of the cornerstones of civilization.

But the fact is, we talk about the dead as statistics all the time.  We simply cannot take an extended period of time to mourn every single person.  How is a Ohio congressman more worthy of our mourning than an HIV victim, or victims of an accident?  Because they're more anonymous.  Of course, it matters if someone here knows the victim or not.  Don't tell me that wouldn't affect your behavior, because we all know it would.

You can show respect and empathy for his death, but there's no point in not discussing the political repercussions for weeks on end.

[J. J.]

It's not up to me - God wants everybody to go to heaven, but he can't be around sin.

Well, that sounds awfully elitist and snobbish.

God owns the universe.  God can be as elitist and snobbish as she wants to be.

[Gustaf]

Most people aren't "evil" and most people have someone close to them who loved them and for whom their death is a shattering blow. And that is why you pay them the respect of not bringing in other considerations, criticisms, etc right at the time of their death. 2-3 weeks may be a bot too much and it depends on the circumstances, but the thread about the person's death is premature. And whether one knew the person or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The respect for the dead is one of the cornerstones of civilization.

But the fact is, we talk about the dead as statistics all the time.  We simply cannot take an extended period of time to mourn every single person.  How is a Ohio congressman more worthy of our mourning than an HIV victim, or victims of an accident?  Because they're more anonymous.  Of course, it matters if someone here knows the victim or not.  Don't tell me that wouldn't affect your behavior, because we all know it would.

You can show respect and empathy for his death, but there's no point in not discussing the political repercussions for weeks on end.

No one said you have to mourn. You just have to show some respect. Just like you don't have to go to his funeral but it is expected of you to not, say, hold a demonstration for the Democratic candidate at the funeral. Of course, if we're discussing something like the rising death rate from obesity or something like that it's a different case. But this was a specific thread about a specific person dying, nothing else. In such a context it is reasonable to not draw in other issues.

[Alcon]

No one said you have to mourn. You just have to show some respect. Just like you don't have to go to his funeral but it is expected of you to not, say, hold a demonstration for the Democratic candidate at the funeral. Of course, if we're discussing something like the rising death rate from obesity or something like that it's a different case. But this was a specific thread about a specific person dying, nothing else. In such a context it is reasonable to not draw in other issues.

I think we're arguing at different lines here.  I don't disagree with you.  I was just saying I think we can respectfully discuss political repercussions.  I also think it was a little like the birthday card throw-aside.

But, even if it's a specific person versus anonymous statistics, why is that any less of a vague line to draw than "no one here knows them"?  You seem to be fine with one, but strongly object to the other, even though I'd argue it'd be more inappropriate if someone here knew him.  I mean, then it has an actual effect here.

But I'm not sure we really disagree on the primary point here.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

While initial speculation suggested that Rep. Paul Gillmor (R-Ohio) died of a heart attack last week, an autopsy concluded that the 68-year-old lawmaker likely passed away after falling down the stairs of his Arlington, Va., home.

Any speculation of foul play?

[Gustaf]

No one said you have to mourn. You just have to show some respect. Just like you don't have to go to his funeral but it is expected of you to not, say, hold a demonstration for the Democratic candidate at the funeral. Of course, if we're discussing something like the rising death rate from obesity or something like that it's a different case. But this was a specific thread about a specific person dying, nothing else. In such a context it is reasonable to not draw in other issues.

I think we're arguing at different lines here.  I don't disagree with you.  I was just saying I think we can respectfully discuss political repercussions.  I also think it was a little like the birthday card throw-aside.

But, even if it's a specific person versus anonymous statistics, why is that any less of a vague line to draw than "no one here knows them"?  You seem to be fine with one, but strongly object to the other, even though I'd argue it'd be more inappropriate if someone here knew him.  I mean, then it has an actual effect here.

But I'm not sure we really disagree on the primary point here.

Of course it would be worse if someone here knew him. My point was rather that these are two separate issues. If someone present personally knows a deceased person it is disrespectful to that present individual (or perhaps rude or mean are better words to use) to, for instance, talk about the death as if it were a political happening. That is pretty obvious. But what I am referring to here is rather that it is disrespectful to the person dead and anyone who cared about him and for that it isn't really a primary concern whether there is a relative present, etc. For instance, I don't think it would be ok to paint grafiti over Abraham Lincoln's grave simply because there is no one alive who knows him. Respect for the dead has nothing to do with there being people around who knew the deceased personally.

[Alcon]

Of course it would be worse if someone here knew him.

I'm confused.  You said: "And whether one knew the person or not has absolutely nothing to do with it."  Are we having a miscommunication, here?

My point was rather that these are two separate issues. If someone present personally knows a deceased person it is disrespectful to that present individual (or perhaps rude or mean are better words to use) to, for instance, talk about the death as if it were a political happening. That is pretty obvious. But what I am referring to here is rather that it is disrespectful to the person dead and anyone who cared about him and for that it isn't really a primary concern whether there is a relative present, etc. For instance, I don't think it would be ok to paint grafiti over Abraham Lincoln's grave simply because there is no one alive who knows him. Respect for the dead has nothing to do with there being people around who knew the deceased personally.

I don't see analyzing the impact of the death of a political figure as equivalent to painting on a gravestone, but I get your general point.  I wasn't saying that lack of familiarity to someone on this forum excuses hateful talk about the recently departed, at all.  That isn't what I said.

[??????????]

While initial speculation suggested that Rep. Paul Gillmor (R-Ohio) died of a heart attack last week, an autopsy concluded that the 68-year-old lawmaker likely passed away after falling down the stairs of his Arlington, Va., home.

Any speculation of foul play?

I'd say it's not all that uncommon for 65+ year old individuals to have falls.

[Joe Republic]

While initial speculation suggested that Rep. Paul Gillmor (R-Ohio) died of a heart attack last week, an autopsy concluded that the 68-year-old lawmaker likely passed away after falling down the stairs of his Arlington, Va., home.

Any speculation of foul play?

I'd say it's not all that uncommon for 65+ year old individuals to have falls.

Indeed, and it's most plausible that the two are related.  i.e. he suffered a heart attack while near the top of a flight of stairs, lost his balance... etc.

[tulip]

I have met Rep. Gilmore. I have inneracted with him on several occasions. He was a very nice man and I wish his family all the best.

[HardRCafé]

Of course it would be worse if someone here knew him.

I'm confused.  You said: "And whether one knew the person or not has absolutely nothing to do with it."  Are we having a miscommunication, here?

I think the point was that it is bad enough either way, even worse if so.  More important, I think we all agree on the major point and got sidetracked somehow arguing some minor point.

T H E
E N D

[tik 🪀✨]

Of course it would be worse if someone here knew him.

I'm confused.  You said: "And whether one knew the person or not has absolutely nothing to do with it."  Are we having a miscommunication, here?

T H E
E N D

Please.. a little respect for the dead, perhaps?

[Alcon]

T H E
E N D

Yes, sir. 

[Gustaf]

Of course it would be worse if someone here knew him.

I'm confused.  You said: "And whether one knew the person or not has absolutely nothing to do with it."  Are we having a miscommunication, here?

My point was rather that these are two separate issues. If someone present personally knows a deceased person it is disrespectful to that present individual (or perhaps rude or mean are better words to use) to, for instance, talk about the death as if it were a political happening. That is pretty obvious. But what I am referring to here is rather that it is disrespectful to the person dead and anyone who cared about him and for that it isn't really a primary concern whether there is a relative present, etc. For instance, I don't think it would be ok to paint grafiti over Abraham Lincoln's grave simply because there is no one alive who knows him. Respect for the dead has nothing to do with there being people around who knew the deceased personally.

I don't see analyzing the impact of the death of a political figure as equivalent to painting on a gravestone, but I get your general point.  I wasn't saying that lack of familiarity to someone on this forum excuses hateful talk about the recently departed, at all.  That isn't what I said.

The "it" above was in reference to the fact that it is inappropriate to discuss a person in such terms rigth after his death. Whether there is someone present who knows him has nothing to do with that. Of course, it would be even worse, very hateful, offensive and so on and so forth to do so in the company of someone close to the person in question but that is a separate issue. Once I realized that this wasn't clear to you I made an extra post explaining that, but it doesn't seem like that gor through either.

It can be a small painting. It can be a tap-dance. The magnitude is of course another thing. I agree that it isn't the worse one can do, but that doesn't make it right either.

[Alcon]

Oh, OK.  Sorry, it was unclear whether you meant that made it unacceptable, or just even worse.  That makes sense, now.  Although I still disagree that it is entirely unacceptable to analyze any political results of a public official's passing, I understand what you're saying, now.  I don't at all disagree.

Sorry for getting things offtrack.  Ever started a conversation, and by the end, regretted bringing it up?  Yeah.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Five pages of what all can you say about somebody who just died within 2 weeks of his death.  Now that it's been 2 weeks since I posted this...

[tik 🪀✨]

Five pages of what all can you say about somebody who just died within 2 weeks of his death.  Now that it's been 2 weeks since I posted this...

THE LATE PAUL GILLMOR (R-OH) WAS A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE MAN

[bgwah]

Five pages of what all can you say about somebody who just died within 2 weeks of his death.  Now that it's been 2 weeks since I posted this...

We can only hope every single Republican member of Congress shares a similar fate in the coming weeks.

[Friz]

We can only hope every single Republican member of Congress shares a similar fate in the coming weeks.