I have a question for Atlas's pro-lifers..

[Friz]

What if Mary aborted Jesus? Think about that.

[Friz]

Abortion is wrong. Plain and Simple.



(Exceptions:Mother's life is in danger, Incest.

No it's not. What is wrong is overpopulation.

Easy for you to say since you are no longer in your moms stomach. I think you would be singing a different tune if you were.

I don't see your point, as fetuses aren't developed enough to be capable of singing.

[Friz]

Now I know that most pro-life people are like "life starts at conception". So what happens in the event of a miscarriage? so does the woman go to hell for "murdering her baby"? After all if life begins at conception a miscarried fetus DOEs have a soul...

The Catholic belief is that non-baptised children go to purgatory, that would include miscarriages. The woman certainly wouldn't be held responsible for the death.

Wow what an awesome God!  The innocent spend eternity in limbo!

[Friz]

The Catholic belief is that non-baptised children go to purgatory, that would include miscarriages.

I'm likely to be mistaken, but didn't the Vatican recently (perhaps a year or so ago) announce that this belief was no longer valid?

Buh-buh-but, this is supposed to be the infallible word of God!!! How can mere mortals pick and choose what to believe?!

[Friz]

Keep God's law out of my life.

[Friz]

The Catholic belief is that non-baptised children go to purgatory, that would include miscarriages.

I'm likely to be mistaken, but didn't the Vatican recently (perhaps a year or so ago) announce that this belief was no longer valid?

You're probably correct. I stopped paying attention when I stopped attending mass.

"Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you." - God

[Friz]

Buh-buh-but, this is supposed to be the infallible word of God!!! How can mere mortals pick and choose what to believe?!

[Friz]

Buh-buh-but, this is supposed to be the infallible word of God!!! How can mere mortals pick and choose what to believe?!

It's not picking and choosing.  It's a transcending of a command to a principle - clearly Jesus told us that not every OT commandment applied (eye for eye, tooth for tooth --> turn the other cheek), and some commandments were upgraded (committing adultery --> even thinking about a woman in an adulterous manner)

Jesus isn't real.  He is a beloved children's character in the spirit of Mickey Mouse and Snoopy.

[Friz]

Buh-buh-but, this is supposed to be the infallible word of God!!! How can mere mortals pick and choose what to believe?!

It's not picking and choosing.  It's a transcending of a command to a principle - clearly Jesus told us that not every OT commandment applied (eye for eye, tooth for tooth --> turn the other cheek), and some commandments were upgraded (committing adultery --> even thinking about a woman in an adulterous manner)

Jesus isn't real.  He is a beloved children's character in the spirit of Mickey Mouse and Snoopy.

O.K. that is complete nonsense. Even mainstream atheists say that Jesus was a real person. There is plenty of evidence supporting this. But Im not going to explain them to you because you believe what you want to be true probably. And you, a person of science, im sure cannot refute this because your almighty scientists and historians and theologions say its true.l

I meant the Jesus Catholics believe in.  Of course he lived, but he really was about as important as anyone's great grandfather's third cousin's prostitute.

[Friz]

I see no reason it shoudl not include the unborn, and until you can provide reason otherwise, I will remain unconvinced.  I am perfectly content, the burden of proof is on you.

The point is that
Generally, the burden of proof rests on one who seeks a change in the status quo.

Well, people once demanded proof that Blacks were not inferior to whites, before they would accept that whites didn't have the right to own blacks, but that's not the point.

I agree with you, the burden of proof is on those who wish to change the status quo... if one looks at the last 50 or so years that countries have accepted abortion as legal, it's just a blink of the eye compared to the thousands of years on human history in which an unborn person was considered to be an individual, with rights, by almost all human civilizations.  In many civilizations, it was considered murder to kill a fetus.  Killing a pregnant woman was considered double murder.  In ancient Chinese (and other African and Asian cultures) it was, and acctually still is, practice to count someone's age from the time of conception.  Literature accross culutres is full of references to unborn persons being persons.

Roe vs Wade and similar rulings are what changed a long standing status quo in the name of "privacy".  Little attention was ever paid to the notion of disproving that an unborn person had rights, and the issue was mostly ignored, until the anti-abotion crowd began to seriously look into the legality of the issue and not just thump the Bible.

Liberals, for their part, have yet to organize a coherant response to these concerns, simple stating "IT A WOMAN'S RIGHT".  "ITS ABOUT PRIVACY".  They have no legal argument, other than Roe, which itself flew blatantly in the face of precident, both in US Law and in comparison to the long standing thoughts of humanity up until that point.

The comparison to white supremacy is ridiculous.  In case you didn't know, that type of behavior was directed at people well outside the first trimester.

I personally don't like abortion, but that doesn't mean I want those rights revoked.

[Friz]

Definition of crap

Typical pro-life argument.