Death penalty supporters: Do you oppose use of the guillotine?
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  Death penalty supporters: Do you oppose use of the guillotine?
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Question: Death penalty supporters: Do you oppose use of the guillotine?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
#3
I don't support the death penalty
 
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Total Voters: 29

Author Topic: Death penalty supporters: Do you oppose use of the guillotine?  (Read 2559 times)
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BRTD
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« on: September 12, 2007, 11:17:31 AM »

There is no reason assuming you support the death penalty to oppose use of the guillotine. It's one of most painless methods of execution, and is one of the cheapest. Certainly much cheaper than lethal injection. So why isn't it in such use? Because it LOOKS gruesome. But if that bothers you, how can you support executions in the first place? They're OK as long as they don't LOOK bad?

People who support the death penalty but not the guillotine are hypocrites.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2007, 02:03:28 PM »

From the intraweb:

The following report was written by a Dr. Beaurieux, who experimented with the head of a condemned prisoner by the name of Henri Languille, on June 28, 1905:[4]

"Here, then, is what I was able to note immediately after the decapitation: the eyelids and lips of the guillotined man worked in irregularly rhythmic contractions for about five or six seconds. This phenomenon has been remarked by all those finding themselves in the same conditions as myself for observing what happens after the severing of the neck...

I waited for several seconds. The spasmodic movements ceased. [...] It was then that I called in a strong, sharp voice: 'Languille!' I saw the eyelids slowly lift up, without any spasmodic contractions – I insist advisedly on this peculiarity – but with an even movement, quite distinct and normal, such as happens in everyday life, with people awakened or torn from their thoughts.

Next Languille's eyes very definitely fixed themselves on mine and the pupils focused themselves. I was not, then, dealing with the sort of vague dull look without any expression, that can be observed any day in dying people to whom one speaks: I was dealing with undeniably living eyes which were looking at me. After several seconds, the eyelids closed again[...].

It was at that point that I called out again and, once more, without any spasm, slowly, the eyelids lifted and undeniably living eyes fixed themselves on mine with perhaps even more penetration than the first time. Then there was a further closing of the eyelids, but now less complete. I attempted the effect of a third call; there was no further movement – and the eyes took on the glazed look which they have in the dead."


For a more technical explanation: http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/bldyk10.htm

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So, I would think I would rather have myself put to sleep painlessly than live as a severed head for ~13 seconds.
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Friz
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2007, 02:14:53 PM »

Why would they oppose it? It's just as inhumane as any other means of execution.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2007, 02:22:34 PM »

Yes, I oppose it - b/c test have been done where the head can respond up to 15 seconds after - but not becuase it looks greusome.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2007, 02:29:26 PM »

Why would they oppose it? It's just as inhumane as any other means of execution.

So you view a painless lethal injection the same way as say, oh, I dunno, hurling stones at a person until they die? Or how about cutting someone with a rusty knife until they bleed to death? Or how about starvation or dehydration as a means of execution?
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2007, 02:39:52 PM »

Yes, I oppose it - b/c test have been done where the head can respond up to 15 seconds after - but not becuase it looks greusome.



Let's see how that compares to other methods of execution (here are some of the worst examples - full list here: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=478:

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Admittely I used some extreme examples; but they all sound like Cruel and unusual punishment to me. Let's face it, the Death Penalty is entirely a knee-jerk reaction of crusty reactionaries who spout a very unusual and undemocratic form of justice. One which seems more focused on being punitive than either being humane or even finding out the guilt or innocence of the accused (Of course as this is America I should also add that there is a racial aspect to all this...) and is totally against the idea of civilisation (which I suppose is about making the so-called savages into whatever we consider normal..)
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2007, 03:51:41 PM »

Yes, I oppose it - b/c test have been done where the head can respond up to 15 seconds after - but not becuase it looks greusome.



Let's see how that compares to other methods of execution (here are some of the worst examples - full list here: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=478:

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Admittely I used some extreme examples; but they all sound like Cruel and unusual punishment to me. Let's face it, the Death Penalty is entirely a knee-jerk reaction of crusty reactionaries who spout a very unusual and undemocratic form of justice. One which seems more focused on being punitive than either being humane or even finding out the guilt or innocence of the accused (Of course as this is America I should also add that there is a racial aspect to all this...) and is totally against the idea of civilisation (which I suppose is about making the so-called savages into whatever we consider normal..)


OK - but those are EXAMPLES - and yeah, Old Sparky in FL needs to be fixed.  But in GENERAL, these mehtods are more humane.  The guillotine has proven time after time - in most experiments - that the person doesn't die initially.

Now - if you could prove that it's painless (due to shock/trama/adrenaline) - then I'd be perfectly fine w/ the use of it.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2007, 04:26:49 PM »

OK - but those are EXAMPLES - and yeah, Old Sparky in FL needs to be fixed.  But in GENERAL, these mehtods are more humane.  The guillotine has proven time after time - in most experiments - that the person doesn't die initially.

Now - if you could prove that it's painless (due to shock/trama/adrenaline) - then I'd be perfectly fine w/ the use of it.
It is. And though these are extreme examples, those 13 seconds do compare favorably with lethal injection. (Lets leave all other methods of exectution besides those two out of the discussion entirely as I dont want to throw up over my keyboard.)
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2007, 04:58:21 PM »

i do think that they should make available on public access TV, or at the internet, video of executions.  While I support the death penalty, if society is unwilling to face up to what it entails, it shouldn't be done.  I also think that a wide variety of execution methods should be available with the choice left to the condemned.  Electrocution, firing squad, guillotine, burning at the stake, being buried alive, torn apart by wild animals, are all fine with me as available choices.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2007, 05:45:32 PM »


It's not always painless
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John Dibble
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2007, 06:08:39 PM »


Neither is the guillotine. I remember hearing about one instance in which the guillotine didn't cut all the way through and it actually had to be pushed down by the executioners to finish the job. And I wouldn't want to live for even thirteen seconds as a severed head, painless or not - that would just be f**king freaky. If I ever need to be executed I'd rather have the needle thank you very much. If you had a choice would you rather the guillotine?

In general lethal injections will be painless, and I view it as the most humane method we have available to us. Sometimes something might go wrong, but that's the case with pretty much every method we have now unfortunately. Thusly, I'll support the method I think will be the most painless and has a low rate of error.

For that matter life in jail isn't exactly painless either - it's living out the rest of your days in a place full of society's worst. You could be beaten, stabbed, anally raped, etc. Thinking on that, prison isn't exactly humane either, and some might view living there for life as worse than death.

Let's just face it, pretty much any punishment we could give for a serious crime isn't going to be a painless one. Frankly, I think those who commit capital crimes like rape and murder should just thank their lucky stars that the justice system actually makes considerations for making their as deaths painless as possible.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2007, 07:19:52 PM »

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WTF?
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DWPerry
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2007, 08:17:53 PM »

There is no reason assuming you support the death penalty to oppose use of the guillotine. It's one of most painless methods of execution, and is one of the cheapest. Certainly much cheaper than lethal injection. So why isn't it in such use? Because it LOOKS gruesome. But if that bothers you, how can you support executions in the first place? They're OK as long as they don't LOOK bad?

People who support the death penalty but not the guillotine are hypocrites.

I support executions in Town Square, if there is no "Town Square" to hold the executions, build one!
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2007, 01:29:46 AM »

Why not just do a simple shot to the head via mechanical gun - b/c firing squad "workers" get messed up mentally as it is.
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2007, 01:32:27 AM »

I think there already was a solution worked out for that, only some of the guns are loaded with live ammunition, the rest are loaded with blanks, the distribution is random and it's never told which is which.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2007, 01:38:31 AM »

I think there already was a solution worked out for that, only some of the guns are loaded with live ammunition, the rest are loaded with blanks, the distribution is random and it's never told which is which.

I know that - but how painless is that?  A shot directly to the head would be instant - but you can't do that w/ 6 guys or it's kinda messy (and obvious who shot him/her)
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2007, 01:40:51 AM »


^^^
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opebo
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« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2007, 02:06:57 AM »

There is no reason assuming you support the death penalty to oppose use of the guillotine. It's one of most painless methods of execution, and is one of the cheapest. Certainly much cheaper than lethal injection. So why isn't it in such use? Because it LOOKS gruesome. But if that bothers you, how can you support executions in the first place? They're OK as long as they don't LOOK bad?

People who support the death penalty but not the guillotine are hypocrites.

I support executions in Town Square, if there is no "Town Square" to hold the executions, build one!

You mean WalMart, hillbilly?

I say if you want to slaughter persons, the easiest method is to just wait, as they will die (as will we all) soon enough.  This, however, is also the cruelest option.
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2007, 08:14:02 AM »

Yes. The Gullotine is too painless.
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AkSaber
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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2007, 10:29:35 PM »

Hmmm. I feel that if individual states want to use the guillotine, let them. But if I were governor, I wouldn't use it. Too messy, and outdated. What option I should vote, I don't know.


Indeed. A gigantic WTF is in order. Tongue
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Joe Biden 2020
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« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2007, 10:58:39 PM »

No, and it seems too cruel and unusual, even if it maybe painless.
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« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2007, 11:11:03 PM »

I am adamantly against the death penalty, so of course I oppose the guillotine.

Let's do it the old fashioned way and hang people upside down and then start sawing them in half from their groin downward into their stomach.  That way, the blood has rushed to the brain from being upside down and you remain alive until the saw gets well into your intestines.

Anybody who argues a "humane" way to put someone to death as a punishment is screwed in the head, in my view.  And the hypocrisies abound.  If I'm terminally ill and in severe pain, I can't off myself... but if I go and murder a child, I'm done for?

I'll keep that in mind if I'm ever terminally ill.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2007, 10:54:51 AM »

Anybody who argues a "humane" way to put someone to death as a punishment is screwed in the head, in my view.

Well, should we argue that we want it to be as painful as possible then? In that case let's just torture them instead of executing them.

As far as I'm concerned the death penalty's main purpose is to rid society of someone who's commited a crime so depraved that it shows they are so dangerous that they'd even pose a danger to the prison gaurds and inmates, not to maliciously hurt them. So if we must put someone to death, we don't need to do it in savage and brutal ways. If we did we wouldn't be much better than the criminals, now would we?

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Hey, I don't make the laws - if you feel the need to off yourself in that situation I wouldn't object.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2007, 11:36:13 AM »

  If I'm terminally ill and in severe pain, I can't off myself... but if I go and murder a child, I'm done for?

I'll keep that in mind if I'm ever terminally ill.
You're entitled to a guard of honour that will accompany you in death.
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Frodo
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« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2007, 09:34:22 PM »

No, I don't have any particular objections to using it.  If it doesn't slice through the criminal's neck all the way, too bad for him. 
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