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| | |-+  Vatican City 2013 papal election
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Author Topic: Vatican City 2013 papal election  (Read 12121 times)
Californian Tony
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« Reply #425 on: March 20, 2013, 05:28:05 pm »
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By the way, I don't really know what Al thinks of this, but the last couple of pages aren't really about the election, so I suppose we should move to the International discussion subforum. I defer the decision to more experienced posters and the moderator of course.

Aren't the most recent posts speculations on how the vote went and why the cardinals voted the way they did? That seems to fit the board rather well.

Of course there is bound to be discussions that exceed the strict frame of the election, but calling them off-topic is a bit of a stretch.
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"A good portion of this country has created an alternate universe. I call this place were these folks live Bullsh*t Mountain. The denizens of Bullsh*t Mountain believe many things: they believe that a Kenyan Muslim President has fundamentally changed the relationship between government and the people of this country."

Jon Stewart
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« Reply #426 on: March 21, 2013, 11:51:49 am »
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By the way, I don't really know what Al thinks of this, but the last couple of pages aren't really about the election, so I suppose we should move to the International discussion subforum. I defer the decision to more experienced posters and the moderator of course.

Aren't the most recent posts speculations on how the vote went and why the cardinals voted the way they did? That seems to fit the board rather well.

Of course there is bound to be discussions that exceed the strict frame of the election, but calling them off-topic is a bit of a stretch.

Exactly. And remember, reliable details from the conclave may take a while to emerge.
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Franknburger
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« Reply #427 on: March 21, 2013, 02:55:24 pm »
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Apparently Franz Jalics (one of the 2 priests that Bergoglio supposedly denounced) issued a statement in the German Jesuits website where he categorically denies Bergoglio having any involvment in his kidnapping.
He says that at first the7y were inclined to think someone denounced them but later, in the 90's, he realised it wasn't the case (at least as far as Bergoglio is concerned).

Here is the statement in Germany, if someone could translate at least part of it, he'll be doing us a huge favor (don't really trust Google Translate Tongue)

http://www.jesuiten.org/aktuelles/details/article/erganzende-erklarung-von-pater-franz-jalics-sj.html

Alright, here a translation for the non- German speakers (I skip the introductory first paragraph):
Quote
These are the facts: Orlando Yoro and myself were not denounced by Padre Bergoglio.

As already pointed out in my earlier statement [of March 15, 2013], we were arrested because of a female Catechist who initially cooperated with us and later joined the guerrilla. We had not seen her for three quarters of a year. Two to three days after her arrest, we were arrested as well. The interrogating officer asked for my documents. When he saw that I was born in Budapest, he thought I was a Russian spy.
In the Argentine Jesuit community and within the church, it had already for some years been incorrectly rumoured that we had moved to the slums because we ourselves were part of the Guerrilla. That was not the case. I suspect that these rumours were the reason why we were not released immediately.
Earlier, I tended to think that we had fallen victim to denouncement. In the late 1990s, after multiple discussions, I realised that this suspicion was unfounded.
It is therefore wrong to state that our arrest took place on Padre Bergoglio's initiative.

While the statement is pretty clear in denying Bergoglio's direct involvement, it does not comment on his role with regards to the "rumours". One wonders why Franz Jalics in this context separately speaks of the "Jesuit community" (headed by Bergoglio) and "the church".
The statement also does not include any comments on the allegation in the Daily Mail article, Bergoglio's direct intervention had resulted in Argentine authorities denying renewal of Jalic's passport.

I furthermore read Jalic's initial statement of March 15. It gives a more detailed description of the situation before and after his arrest, without any reference to Bergoglio other than that he had agreed to Jalic taking residence in the slums. The March 15 statement closes:
Quote
After our release, I left Argentina. Only years later we had the opportunity to discuss the events with Bergoglio, who in the meantime had become Archbishop of Buenos Aires. Afterwards, we jointly celebrated public mass and embraced ourselves ceremonially. I have reconciled with the events and regard the matter for myself as closed.
I wish Pope Francis god's' blessings for his office.
https://www.jesuiten.org/aktuelles/details/article/erklarung-von-pater-franz-jalics-sj.html

In short: Jalics was not happy about Bergoglio's role in the events, but has forgiven him. Whatever Bergoglio did (or did not do), it was not so grave that Jalics considers it as a fundamental burden to papacy.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 03:00:30 pm by Franknburger »Logged

Paleobrazilian
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« Reply #428 on: March 23, 2013, 11:52:09 am »
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Californian Tony
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« Reply #429 on: March 23, 2013, 03:00:23 pm »
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Reminds me of...

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"A good portion of this country has created an alternate universe. I call this place were these folks live Bullsh*t Mountain. The denizens of Bullsh*t Mountain believe many things: they believe that a Kenyan Muslim President has fundamentally changed the relationship between government and the people of this country."

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« Reply #430 on: March 23, 2013, 03:26:54 pm »

Yeah,  you can see why he retired.
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« Reply #431 on: March 25, 2013, 03:57:00 pm »
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True, Benedict really seems to have been deteriorating. Which is not unusual in a man of his age, of course. Still, a shame of such a great mind. (Always a very cerebral person, Ratzinger, probably the most intellectually achieved pope since early christianity).
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