how do you rate Bill Clinton's job performance as president?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 25, 2024, 07:48:14 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  how do you rate Bill Clinton's job performance as president?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]
Poll
Question: how do you rate Bill Clinton's job performance as president?
#1
A
 
#2
B
 
#3
C
 
#4
D
 
#5
F
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 31

Author Topic: how do you rate Bill Clinton's job performance as president?  (Read 2617 times)
Boris
boris78
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,098
United Kingdom


Political Matrix
E: -1.55, S: -4.52

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2007, 09:23:02 PM »

I doubt that Clinton cares all too much about what the Democrats are associated with - rather, he liked and wanted power, and running to the right was probably his best if not lone chance of avoiding the fate the bedeviled the Democratic congress in 1994.

Yes and No. Obviously, those two things (power and image/association) go hand in hand. You're absolutely right about Clinton's move to the right, though; the same thing happened in the Arkansas Gubernatorial Elections of 1980 and 1982.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Probably. The same thing is true with DOMA. Clinton is hardly an idiot; he knew what he was signing into law was unconstitutional and would eventually be overturned, yet he knew it would score him political points in the 1996 election.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Exactly my point; political party ideologies are dominated by public opinion; not by consistency or values. Iraq was popular in 2002; therefore a majority of Senate voted in favor. Now every Democratic Senator (except Lieberman) opposes the war and favors withdrawal.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yes, but were Gore President now, the Republicans would have like 57-60 senate seats and at least 30+ seat margin in the House. Had he even wanted to enact leftist economic policies, he'd be stonewalled and reduced to irrelevancy. The Bush tax cuts of 2001/2003 wouldn't have been enacted and there would probably be less spending at all levels at government, particularly the military. Although I'm sure Vice President Lieberman would be urging Gore to invade Iraq with ground troops instead of continuing the made-for-TV air strikes against Saddam Hussein.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Okay, how has the convergence of the Dems and the GOP occurred post 2001? Using my theory that public opinion is the key factor that influences party ideology, we see the Dems appearing to be "tough on terror" throughout 2002 and their support of the Iraq War. Definite convergence right there.

Subsequently, we see the rise of anti-war candidate Howard Dean who becomes the front runner for the 2004 race. He then f's up, allowing the DLC-backed Kerry to win the nomination. Kerry is, well, a joke, somewhat similar to Bush, but for whatever reason is viewed as a liberal.  I'll give this to you also; there's some political convergence (btw, what was Kerry's stance on Iraq in 2004? I'm still trying to figure it out). Not much to do with Clinton, but rather Kerry's own ineptitude to differentiate himself from his opponent.

In 2006 we see the new Democratic Congressional Majorities, but they do jacksh**t because they're pussies. This doesn't really have to do with political convergence (i'm sure they disagree with the President); it has to do with overall pussyness, which may be influenced by potential negative public blowback (again, showing how public opinion shapes ideology and actions).

The 2008 candidates differ strongly on Iraq, healthcare, etc. This is due to different public opinions with their respective bases. Hillary, for example, may have no actual ideology of her own, but her platform is substantially different than that of say, Mitt Romney (who also has no political ideology of his own). I fail to see how any such political convergence is currently occurring; IMO, both parties are drifting apart.

Of course, there are elements within both parties that are the same, such as unconditional support of Israel and overall corporate whoring (although the latter is definitely far more egregious in the GOP), but these elements are largely due to the intricacies of U.S. politics and not Clinton.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I was referring to the differences of the candidates running in that election, not the actual election itself.

i think the bombing of the uss cole is the most pathetic example of clinton's foreign policy failures. i thought that was an act of war but clinton did do a damn thing.


That's largely because of when it occurred (two weeks before a general election) and the fact that the CIA couldn't certify that Al Qaeda was behind the attack. I think they finally confirmed it a few weeks after Clinton left office.

If you want a pathetic foreign policy action on Clinton's part, check out Operation Infinite Reach, which was in response to the 1998 African Embassy Bombings.

He did nothing to protect the environment in eight years in office until his last few days when he signed a bunch of orders which Bush overturned on his first day.

But at least he believed in Global Warming!

Oh yeah.  In My Life he said he disagreed with several key provisions of the reform (specifically that it was too harsh on immigrants), but went on to defend other portions anyway!

Do you remember if he ever mentioned DOMA in My Life? I don't recall him ever addressing it...
Logged
Ebowed
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,597


Political Matrix
E: 4.13, S: 2.09

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2007, 09:37:24 PM »

I couldn't find any mention of DOMA, but he does briefly mention gay marriage, specifically his disgust at the GOP's use of anti-gay ads in the wake of Matthew Shephard's death in the 90s.
Logged
© tweed
Miamiu1027
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,562
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2007, 11:51:28 AM »

Exactly my point; political party ideologies are dominated by public opinion; not by consistency or values. Iraq was popular in 2002; therefore a majority of Senate voted in favor. Now every Democratic Senator (except Lieberman) opposes the war and favors withdrawal.

well, not exactly.  the Democratic congress continues to fund the war although the public would prefer they didn't.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I think Gore would have lost in 2004 and the congressional situation would not be as dire.  but there's little point in discussing such inherently baseless hypotheticals.

---

and you are missing the point about what convergence of the parties means.  it does not mean that there will not be disagreements.  it does not mean that the rhetoric will be identical.  but rather, the events that transpire while the two are in power aren't very different, and the economic platforms are exactly the same - corporatism.  sure, the Democratic candidates pay lip service to "universal health care."  but analyze the plans.  outside of Kucinich, every single one of them doesn't want to take the system out of big business' hands.  the GOP did the same thing with the Medicare extension thing in 2003.

this isn't to say that the Democratic party is not, for now, the lesser of two very, very deep evils.  but the gap is narrowing, substantially.  and when President Hillary and Democratic congress still have Americans being killed in Iraq and no health care reform (and I'm hardly the only one predicting this) perhaps you can better understand what I mean.
Logged
GMantis
Dessie Potter
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,984
Bulgaria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2007, 12:56:37 PM »

Domestic policy: C (and I'm only giving him that because he didn't have control of congress).
Foreign policy: F
Overall: D
By the way, why is there no E?
Logged
I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 113,026
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2007, 01:01:49 PM »

It appears the US grading system isn't used in other countries from this thread.

The US grading system has 4 passing grades: A, B, C, D. F stands for "fail", which means you fail the class and don't get credit or have to repeat it. There's no E because the system isn't using letters in linear order except for the passing grades.
Logged
GMantis
Dessie Potter
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,984
Bulgaria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2007, 02:58:40 PM »

It appears the US grading system isn't used in other countries from this thread.

The US grading system has 4 passing grades: A, B, C, D. F stands for "fail", which means you fail the class and don't get credit or have to repeat it. There's no E because the system isn't using letters in linear order except for the passing grades.
I studied for a year in the UK, where they do use them in a linear progression - I think even beyond F. There was even an U for "ungradeable".
In my own country a numerical system  (with 2 as the lowest and 6 as the highest grade) is used.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.04 seconds with 13 queries.