Legacies in college admissions

[nclib]

Option 4 for me.

It amazes me how Republicans/conservatives claim that admissions should be based on merit, then turn around and support "legacies" for a privileged group of people.

[MarkDel]

I say NO Legacies AND NO Affirmative Action.

[Keystone Phil]

I say NO Legacies AND NO Affirmative Action.

I agree. That is how I voted as well.

I'm also opposed to both.

[ilikeverin]

5

[Brambila]

I think that private schools can do whatever they want- Affirmative Action and Legacies. However, public schools can do neither.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I support both race-based and class-based affirmative action, but I think class-based is more important, so I voted #5.

I am against legacy admissions, but it is not an obvious call.  Legacy admissions encourage rich parents to give a lot of money to their schools, which allows those schools to charge lower tuition.  Elite colleges depend heavily on donations from alumni, and the money might dry up if alums didn't think they were getting something in return.  So would people accept higher tuition in exchange for not admitting legacies?

[MarkDel]

I support both race-based and class-based affirmative action, but I think class-based is more important, so I voted #5.

I am against legacy admissions, but it is not an obvious call.  Legacy admissions encourage rich parents to give a lot of money to their schools, which allows those schools to charge lower tuition.  Elite colleges depend heavily on donations from alumni, and the money might dry up if alums didn't think they were getting something in return.  So would people accept higher tuition in exchange for not admitting legacies?

Nick, that is an excellent point. However, that essentially means that a University is allowing itself to be bribed to admit a certain student, and that is a sad statement about any school.

[Nation]

I have no problem with legacies, seeing that since my dad attended Buffalo State, that may have helped push me over the edge to get in.

He didn't give any huge amounts of money, it was just the fact that he was an alum that may have assisted me, but I doubt it -- I had enough other good qualities.

Private schools can do what they want, and for public schools, if it helps bring in money to keep vital programs afloat, I'm for it.

[muon2]

Another issue to consider is the complexity of an incoming student application. No school uses or should use a straight test number indpendent of other factors. The university is trying to identify the best students who will succeed in completing their education. For some students a high test score is a clear indicator and the school can make a yes/no determination on that alone.

Factors like recommendations, extracurricular activities, and special achievements can point to academic success that a marginal ACT score can miss. Interestingly, legacies can also point to academic success, since there is for many of them more desire to succeed with the family's reputation at the school. Needless to say like any other factor, its only somewhat predictive, so legacy should never be used alone as a factor.

[dazzleman]

I chose the last option.

I think legacies at southern state schools are terribly unfair to blacks, who were unconstitutionally excluded from the schools for which their taxes paid until relatively recently, and therefore can't call upon earlier generations of alumni/alumnae to boost their applications.

I have not been a supporter of affirmative action because I don't think you right a wrong by committing another wrong.  I would much rather eliminate legacies, and have applicants evaluated on their own merits without regard to race, than continue legacies and have affirmative action.

[7,052,770]

no legacies, no AA

[opebo]

Legacies are cool and an aspect of individual rights within a private institution.

Affirmative Action is just the opposite - an interference with private rights.

[dazzleman]

Legacies are cool and an aspect of individual rights within a private institution.

Affirmative Action is just the opposite - an interference with private rights.

If legacies are an aspect of individual rights, so is affirmative action.  An institution may make a private choice to honor affirmative action just as they choose to honor legacies.

As I said earlier, I believe in neither.  But it's not fair to be one-sided, and support something that effectively gives whites preference over blacks, since blacks were specifically excluded from those institutions in the past based solely on skin color, and then complain about affirmative action.

[Akno21]

None of either. Merit all the way.

[dazzleman]

None of either. Merit all the way.

I'm surprised to see how many liberals do not support affirmative action.  How does it remain so strongly a part of the Democratic agenda?

[Akno21]

None of either. Merit all the way.

I'm surprised to see how many liberals do not support affirmative action.  How does it remain so strongly a part of the Democratic agenda?

They need 90% of African Americans to vote for them if they want to win.

[dazzleman]

None of either. Merit all the way.

I'm surprised to see how many liberals do not support affirmative action.  How does it remain so strongly a part of the Democratic agenda?

They need 90% of African Americans to vote for them if they want to win.

Very true, but it seems to be more than that.  It's almost like the abortion issue for Democrats.  Those who don't agree with the position are sent to Siberia.  It's just one of those politically correct things - if you don't support it, you're guilty of "hate."

There are a fair number of blacks who don't support certain aspects of affirmative action (just as there are many women who don't support abortion).

The Democratic Party needs the support of rabidly partisan groups like the NAACP and NOW, for whom these issues are paramount, and I guess that delivers them the support they need from blacks and women to have a chance of winning elections.

Because blacks vote so overwhelmingly for Democrats, and Democrats need that level of support from blacks to win, they are at the same time the party's greatest source of strength as well as its greatest Achilles Heel.

[Nym90]

I chose option 5. Class based AA, no legacies. Everyone should have equal opportunity regardless of their family background.

Dazzleman, you are correct, a lot of Dems don't personally support race-based AA but feel an obligation to support it in order to secure black votes. The GOP, of course, often does the same thing with the religious right. How many Republicans on this board oppose stem-cell research, for example?

[Beet]

Option 5 for me too.

[John Dibble]

I still say class based AA is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. And in general, colleges don't care about your financial background(aka they treat you equally). In fact, the only time my college asks about how much money my parents make is when the financial aid department wants to know(oh, and that department only gives money to those who are from families that aren't well off enough to pay for college, I don't get squat because my mother makes too much money). The system is hardly biased against the lower economic classes.

[dazzleman]

Legacies are cool and an aspect of individual rights within a private institution.

Affirmative Action is just the opposite - an interference with private rights.

An interesting quote by the 'old' opebo.  What caused such a sudden change of heart on this issue?

[opebo]

Legacies are cool and an aspect of individual rights within a private institution.

Affirmative Action is just the opposite - an interference with private rights.

An interesting quote by the 'old' opebo.  What caused such a sudden change of heart on this issue?

A better understanding of power, and the absurdity of making arbitrary distinctions between State action and 'private' actions.

[GOP = Terrorists]

I chose the last option.

I think legacies at southern state schools are terribly unfair to blacks, who were unconstitutionally excluded from the schools for which their taxes paid until relatively recently, and therefore can't call upon earlier generations of alumni/alumnae to boost their applications.

I have not been a supporter of affirmative action because I don't think you right a wrong by committing another wrong.  I would much rather eliminate legacies, and have applicants evaluated on their own merits without regard to race, than continue legacies and have affirmative action.

Good Post.  I'm still pro affirmative action as a neutral effort to right past wrongs but I understand that it has a limited lifespan.