Extradition Bill [Passed]

[Sam Spade]

Extradition Bill

It shall be the policy of the government of Atlasia that no foreign person suspected of a crime will be extradited to a nation where he or she may receive the death penalty for that crime.

(Sponsor: Ebowed)

[Verily]

I motion to for an amendment to change the wording to "...where he or she may receive cruel and unusual punishment for that crime."

After all, we should be consistent with the Constitution.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I motion to for an amendment to change the wording to "...where he or she may receive cruel and unusual punishment for that crime."

After all, we should be consistent with the Constitution.

I'd support that.

Does Atlasia currently have the death penalty?  Or, at least, regions therein?

[Ebowed]

I motion to for an amendment to change the wording to "...where he or she may receive cruel and unusual punishment for that crime."

I cannot support this unless you specifically define cruel and unusual punishment to include the death penalty.  Otherwise you're going to ruin the purpose of this bill.  Cruel and unusual punishment (i.e. torture) for foreign-based prisoners is covered in another bill of mine that should be on the floor soon anyway.

Does Atlasia currently have the death penalty?  Or, at least, regions therein?

It has been abolished in the Pacific, Midwest, and Mideast Regions, as well as by the federal government.  It is not officially abolished in the Southeast, but there are no crimes in statute that can be punished capitally.  The Northeast Region still has it.

The only way someone can still be executed, outside the Northeast Region, is for a foreign person to be extradited to a more regressive country which still has it.  Hence the purpose of this bill.

[MAS117]

That is correct, the Northeast still has the death penalty.

[Ebowed]

That is correct, the Northeast still has the death penalty.

And the last region to set a minimum wage.  Pretty shocking considering the voter make-up.

[Sam Spade]

Although I have been lazy about it, I fully intend on passing initiatives to bring back the death penalty in the Southeast.  This bill does a fine job of reminding me of that. 

[afleitch]

I can't support any amendment that specifically strikes the words 'death penalty' from the definition even though I do understand the attempt at consistency with the constitution.

[Verily]

I motion to for an amendment to change the wording to "...where he or she may receive cruel and unusual punishment for that crime."

I cannot support this unless you specifically define cruel and unusual punishment to include the death penalty.  Otherwise you're going to ruin the purpose of this bill.  Cruel and unusual punishment (i.e. torture) for foreign-based prisoners is covered in another bill of mine that should be on the floor soon anyway.

How about "...where he or she may receive punishment in excess of that which would be administered in Atlasia."

(Bah, that's clunky wording.)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

How about "cruel and unusual punishment, including the death penalty" or words to that effect?

[minionofmidas]

"the death penalty or other excessively cruel or unusual punishment"? (not simply "cruel" since that, in my book, includes all forms of incarceration.)

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I would vote for final passage of this bill with Verily's "cruel and unusual" wording, but since Atlasia still has the death penalty, it seems hypocritical at the very least to refuse to extradite criminals to their home country because said country has the death penalty, too.

[Ebowed]

but since Atlasia still has the death penalty, it seems hypocritical at the very least to refuse to extradite criminals to their home country because said country has the death penalty, too.

Not really.  The federal government should take as strong a stance against executions as possible.  Just because some regions choose to be repressive backwaters doesn't mean that the Atlasian government should be sending people over to third world hellholes to be executed.

As a side note, this sort of extradition policy would be a big public relations plus for Atlasia looking to rebuild common ground with allies like Canada and the European Union.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Not really.  The federal government should take as strong a stance against executions as possible.  Just because some regions choose to be repressive backwaters doesn't mean that the Atlasian government should be sending people over to third world hellholes to be executed.

I strongly object to the Northeast being called a backwater and/or a third world hellhole.

As a side note, this sort of extradition policy would be a big public relations plus for Atlasia looking to rebuild common ground with allies like Canada and the European Union.

From what I hear, we "ain't no superpower," so what does that kind of thing matter?

[Ebowed]

I strongly object to the Northeast being called a backwater and/or a third world hellhole.

I didn't call it a third world hellhole.

From what I hear, we "ain't no superpower," so what does that kind of thing matter?

I don't see what that has to do with looking good in the international community.

[Sam Spade]

I strongly object to the Northeast being called a backwater and/or a third world hellhole.

I didn't call it a third world hellhole.

I'm pretty sure Ebowed was referring to the Southeast, but just got careless and decided to include the "third-world hellhole" that is the Northeast Region in his remark.

[Ebowed]

Nope.  I was referring to actual third  world countries.

[Sam Spade]

Nope.  I was referring to actual third  world countries.

It really can't be read that way in context, but if you want to back away from the statement, that's fine by me.

Signed,
Your Friendly "Repressive Backwater" Senator

[Verily]

Nope.  I was referring to actual third  world countries.

It really can't be read that way in context, but if you want to back away from the statement, that's fine by me.

Signed,
Your Friendly "Repressive Backwater" Senator

He called the Northeast a "repressive backwater" but not a "third world hellhole".

Fortunately, I know what the next proposition I bring before the Northeast in October will be. It's really unfortunate we have no laws recorded in the Wiki after October 2005.

/Back on-topic

[Ebowed]

It really can't be read that way in context, but if you want to back away from the statement, that's fine by me.

The first part of the sentence refers to any area of Atlasia which retains executions as a repressive backwater; the second part of the sentence says that this is not a valid reason to continue extraditing people to third world countries where they will be executed.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Nope.  I was referring to actual third  world countries.

It really can't be read that way in context, but if you want to back away from the statement, that's fine by me.

Signed,
Your Friendly "Repressive Backwater" Senator

Including yourself, Verily, Brandon, Earl, and myself, we've got a Repressive Backwater voting bloc here in the Senate!  Hooray.

[Ebowed]

Including yourself, Verily, Brandon, Earl, and myself, we've got a Repressive Backwater voting bloc here in the Senate!  Hooray.

Defend killing your own citizens in peacetime if you want.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Including yourself, Verily, Brandon, Earl, and myself, we've got a Repressive Backwater voting bloc here in the Senate!  Hooray.

Defend killing your own citizens in peacetime if you want.

Unpopular though the issue will likely prove to be in this Senate, I do believe the death penalty is applicable for the worst of the worst offenses when there is no doubt to the guilt of the accused.

[minionofmidas]

Not really.  The federal government should take as strong a stance against executions as possible.  Just because some regions choose to be repressive backwaters doesn't mean that the Atlasian government should be sending people over to third world hellholes to be executed.

I strongly object to the Northeast being called a backwater and/or a third world hellhole.

As a side note, this sort of extradition policy would be a big public relations plus for Atlasia looking to rebuild common ground with allies like Canada and the European Union.

From what I hear, we "ain't no superpower," so what does that kind of thing matter?

Actually, that's precisely why it matters. All powerful countries like George Bush's America can go around bending international law at will and tell their reputation among their allies to go swallow lye. Belgium or Slovenia can't.

[Sam Spade]

We are now voting on the following amendment:

I motion to for an amendment to change the wording to "...where he or she may receive cruel and unusual punishment for that crime."

Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.


Aye.