NM: Sen. Pete Domenici (R) to Retire Next Year

[ilikeverin]

Great Opportunity for the Democrats

BTW: Do you Americans pronounce Chavez as "Shuh-Vess" or "Chaves" (like caves) ... ?

As in Spanish. SHAH-vez. (Well, depending on the accent, some Spanish speakers would say "CHAH-vez".) Americans generally know how to pronounce common Spanish words and names.

Almost all Spanish speakers would say "CHAH-vays" (the s at the end is pronounced like an s), with the possible exception of Castilians who might use "CHAH-vayth".  So we pronounce it incorrectly, as usual

[ilikeverin]

Great Opportunity for the Democrats

BTW: Do you Americans pronounce Chavez as "Shuh-Vess" or "Chaves" (like caves) ... ?

As in Spanish. SHAH-vez. (Well, depending on the accent, some Spanish speakers would say "CHAH-vez".) Americans generally know how to pronounce common Spanish words and names.

Almost all Spanish speakers would say "CHAH-vays" (the s at the end is pronounced like an s), with the possible exception of Castilians who might use "CHAH-vayth".  So we pronounce it incorrectly, as usual

"Vayz"? Definitely not.

tSAY-zar tCHAH-vez.

tsay?  Now you're speaking nonsense, though English orthography is convoluted enough that we might be saying the same thing but in a different way .  IPA is: /sesaɾ ʧaβ̞es/

z is always pronounced like an s in Spanish, except in a few dialects.  e is always pronounced (not quite) like the "a" in "table".

In English, though, poor Cesar Chavez becomes /sizɚ ʃɑvɛz/, which isn't close at all.

(sorry if your computer doesn't properly format any of these; I can switch to X-SAMPA if you'd like)

[ilikeverin]

Well, it depends on the dialect; Castilian Spanish would begin it with an unvoiced th (θ), I think.

[ilikeverin]

Great Opportunity for the Democrats

BTW: Do you Americans pronounce Chavez as "Shuh-Vess" or "Chaves" (like caves) ... ?

As in Spanish. SHAH-vez. (Well, depending on the accent, some Spanish speakers would say "CHAH-vez".) Americans generally know how to pronounce common Spanish words and names.

Almost all Spanish speakers would say "CHAH-vays" (the s at the end is pronounced like an s), with the possible exception of Castilians who might use "CHAH-vayth".  So we pronounce it incorrectly, as usual

"Vayz"? Definitely not.

tSAY-zar tCHAH-vez.

tsay?  Now you're speaking nonsense, though English orthography is convoluted enough that we might be saying the same thing but in a different way .  IPA is: /sesaɾ ʧaβ̞es/

z is always pronounced like an s in Spanish, except in a few dialects.  e is always pronounced (not quite) like the "a" in "table".

In English, though, poor Cesar Chavez becomes /sizɚ ʃɑvɛz/, which isn't close at all.

(sorry if your computer doesn't properly format any of these; I can switch to X-SAMPA if you'd like)

The little t I added to the beginning is the slight "click" at the opening of Spanish words beginning with s-sounds. It was the best approximation I could come up.

It is never sizɚ, I don't know where you're getting that from. The worst English pronunciation would be Say-zer (or maybe Sez-er for someone who had no idea what they were doing).

I'd think the average American would conflate "Cesar" with "Caesar" and then choose to massacre "Cesar" just like we butcher "Caesar"

[ilikeverin]

Great Opportunity for the Democrats

BTW: Do you Americans pronounce Chavez as "Shuh-Vess" or "Chaves" (like caves) ... ?

As in Spanish. SHAH-vez. (Well, depending on the accent, some Spanish speakers would say "CHAH-vez".) Americans generally know how to pronounce common Spanish words and names.

Almost all Spanish speakers would say "CHAH-vays" (the s at the end is pronounced like an s), with the possible exception of Castilians who might use "CHAH-vayth".  So we pronounce it incorrectly, as usual

"Vayz"? Definitely not.

tSAY-zar tCHAH-vez.

tsay?  Now you're speaking nonsense, though English orthography is convoluted enough that we might be saying the same thing but in a different way .  IPA is: /sesaɾ ʧaβ̞es/

z is always pronounced like an s in Spanish, except in a few dialects.  e is always pronounced (not quite) like the "a" in "table".

In English, though, poor Cesar Chavez becomes /sizɚ ʃɑvɛz/, which isn't close at all.

(sorry if your computer doesn't properly format any of these; I can switch to X-SAMPA if you'd like)

The little t I added to the beginning is the slight "click" at the opening of Spanish words beginning with s-sounds. It was the best approximation I could come up.

It is never sizɚ, I don't know where you're getting that from. The worst English pronunciation would be Say-zer (or maybe Sez-er for someone who had no idea what they were doing).

I'd think the average American would conflate "Cesar" with "Caesar" and then choose to massacre "Cesar" just like we butcher "Caesar"

If they're getting "Cesar" confused with "Caesar", they'll also get "Caesar" wrong. I would not expect the average American to have that problem. (In any case, Americans pronounce "Caesar" incorrectly, too; it's Kay-sahr in Latin.)

No, that was my point.  Americans pronounce Caesar wrong.  Thus, when we are confronted with "Cesar", we do what is natural to English speakers and try to pronounce it close to a word we already think we know ("Caesar"), kind of like how we mispronounce "epitome" (we recognize "epi" and "tome" and put 'em together... whoops ).  Hence, "Cesar" being pronounced /si.zɚ/.  I'd assume the news media is better about this, though (it seems like all of them have been taking Introduction to Spanish Pronunciation due to the boom in Hispanics )