Opinion of Ireland.

[Јas]

Well?

Might aswell get with the trend.

Surely wrong forum?

Dearfach.

Agreed.

Should be reunited. Positive though, especially county Monaghan, where one side of my family is from.

And both sides of my family.

By the by, for a lesson on Monaghan vernacular (through satire) see here. Those familiar with Kevin Myers may benefit most (I presume I've just eliminated everyone but Gully there). Also, I should say that those easily offended by coarse language probably had best avoid that.

[Јas]

Should be reunited. Positive though, especially county Monaghan, where one side of my family is from.

Why do you hate Ireland?

Controversial.

Potato Famine aside what's happened in Ireland in the past 1,000 years isn't really much worse than any other country. Quite alot of Irish people (Catholics and Protestants; though Catholics only really after 1829 or so) benefitted fairly well from the British Empire; often among the Merchant classes we were more the exploitees than the exploited.

Don't think I can bring myself to agree with all of this. Certainly, there were Irish who benefitted from the Empire and the whole 800 years of oppression thing is certainly overplayed, but there have been a series of very significant grievances.

As for it being expensive, well Dublin is pretty damn expensive to live in (which is why I hope to emigrate after I complete my undergrad; though that's not the only reason) and alot of the country especially west of the River Shannon is very economically dependant on tourist income. Apparently we are second most expensive country to live in the EU behind Finland. Oh dear.

Dublin is ridiculous. In all sorts of ways, but particularly expense wise.
I'd advise avoiding Dublin in favour of the great beyond myself.

[Јas]

Why do you hate Ireland?

I surely do not. I fully support Irish re-unification and the freedom fighter corps aka IRA.

It's funny States because I doubt you like to associate yourself with basically the only people left in Ireland who strongly support a united state. (As a reality; not as a mere hypothetical.) And they are:

1) Hard left Socialist-Nationalists; and Ireland has a history of left-wing Nationalism - basically people who see the current Dublin goverment as British pawns in the fight against the British capitalist system which once defeated will give us a Gaelic utopia for us all.

2) If you ever travel in Ireland for long enough (actually that not long) you will inevitably see graffiti written walls with slogans like "Up the 'Ra" or "Eire 32" - generally these people tend belong to the "Young thugs" caste you seem to hate so much.

I don't think that's a particularly fair argument. I don't think either of the two groups you put forward are actually overly concerned with unity - the hard left has essentially abandoned republicanism altogether and those young thugs really have no broad political ideology that has any amount of thought put into it.

The aim of a United Ireland is just about the only thing that really binds Fianna Fáil together, the move into Northern politics underlines how important it is to their pysche.

I have no doubt that a vote on unity would pass by a huge margin on this side of the border.

[Јas]

Alot of people when it comes to Ireland (and Scotland too) seem to think things are alot more 'conservative' (for want of a better word) than they actually are.

Americans, yes - but I don't think that applies to most others (Europeans, Australians, etc.).
American tourists in particular seem to expect to find something much more...quaint, than the reality.

[Јas]

Alot of people when it comes to Ireland (and Scotland too) seem to think things are alot more 'conservative' (for want of a better word) than they actually are.

Only people who abuse the word conservative.

I don't think Ireland is a conservative place; a more accurate term I'd say is complacent. (And still is; while attitudes towards "moral issues" ie. issues relating to sex have somewhat liberalized over the past 30 years - especially the last 10 and the Catholic church's institutional power has declined significantly - though it's still not completely irrelevant as many would think - I don't think the general attitude of the average Irish person has changed too much over a really long period of time.)

As Jas would know, I don't exactly hold a high opinion of "middle Ireland".

Not so sure that attitudes aren't changing...
Majority of women want abortion legalised - Front Page of last Saturday's Irish Times.

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But that means we'll have to give up such modern convincies like flushing toilets and central heating. I mean I almost live in Kildare now FFS and it's full of bleedin' savages who eat their young. (Note: not actually a joke when referring to Naas. No really..... Sorry, not really.. Yes I think only Jas would understand the reference but it was worth it anyway) I mean I can't imagine what voodoo magic and cant you produce down the country.. I'll have to farm next.

And I'm now back in Dublin *shudder*

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Undoubtely the problem is with trying to make a balanced history is you have to emphasize the bits which are often left out. (Daniel O'Connell was a strong supporter of the British Empire and there was a significant Catholic element which after emancipation did quite well out of it, Wolfe Tone was an atheist.. something many nationalists don't like bringing up, etc.)

True

[Јas]

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Well the far left is so fragmented over here that it's often hard to tell. The major *sn* far left group seem either obssesed with the cult of Che Guevara and good-ole America bashing (the SWP) while the other is an organization almost entirely dependent the figure of one man (The Socialist Party). Of course neither group is particularly Republican but there is still a significant republican element among far left group. And I'd say the majority of Ideological republicans have left wing sympathies.

As for Fianna fail, pardon my cynicism while I state that the only thing I think holding FF together a bunch of politicians protecting their careers. FF being the party of whatever happens to be in Fashion ATM, I doubt a united Ireland is much more than aspirational aim among FFers and that would be true nowadays of FGers too except for perhaps the most commited Anglos in the party.

I would think a referendum on unification would be close once it became apparent how much it would cost and the fact that we would have put up with Unionists for the unforseeable future.

Well when I mentioned FF, I meant the membership at large or maybe core FF voters, not the parliamentary party in particular.

And my broad point was that given the broad numbers of people here who would support unification (however soft that support may be) it's unfair to label someone as hating Ireland when they fall in line with a likely majority of Irish citizens on the issue.

[Јas]

I found that Abortion survey quite interesting btw. But that doesn't mean I think attitudes are changing; I still suspect that this is yet another example of the infamous Irish tendency towards groupthink.

Plus like always if we actually had a referendum on it we still wouldn't get it past, history shows that people tend to swing towards the conservative option during an actual campaign. (It happened in Divorce 1986, Divorce 1995, Abortion 1983, etc)

Ah, yes, I'd agree it wouldn't pass in a referendum...yet. But I think that the result would be much closer.

Plus, by the by, the Constitution does allow for abortion in limited circumstances as is - what stands in the way at the moment is the lack of legislative footing (which won't change for the foreseeable future) and the Medical Council.

[Јas]

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Ahh.. Tongue in Cheek?

Yes, but still...

(Anyway alot of people I'm sure think I hate Ireland; which actually is something I'm making my mind up over. )

Well, I don't think that - but I can see the whole Kevin Myers thing

Your perhaps right about the small party membership; though I don't know about actual mainstream voters - around here having a United Ireland is about as big an issue as whether or not we should have Orange colored bins to go with the black and green ones. But then again I do live in Dublin South. So perhaps it's not representative.

Genuine LOL at perhaps Dublin South not being representative
You're right thtat it's far from a burning issue - and that's true just about everywhere, but it's certainly a core FF issue and one with which most Irish people (rightly or wrongly) would probably agree on. It's almost a default position.

[Јas]

Actually as a random aside does anyone have a link to or knowledge of how much % of people in each US state claim Irish ancestory. (NY First; MA second; PA probably third I'm sure but the rest.. just curious.)

[Јas]

Actually as a random aside does anyone have a link to or knowledge of how much % of people in each US state claim Irish ancestory. (NY First; MA second; PA probably third I'm sure but the rest.. just curious.)

Color scheme?

No idea, just lifted it as is from wikipedia.

Fantastic none the less (I can't believe I forgot about NJ) though I must say some of those are really, well, unusual.. what's with the Irish cluster in Western Montana\North Idaho.

Can't answer that either.
This document may be of interest though...link, see page 6 in particular - that should answer your original question.

[Јas]

% Claiming Irish Ancestry
(2000 Census)
Massachussets 22.5
New Hampshire 19.4
Rhode island 18.4
Connecticut 16.6
Delaware 16.6
Vermont 16.4
Pennsylvania 16.1
New Jersey 15.9
Maine 15.1
Montana 14.8
Iowa 13.5
Nebraska 13.4
Wyoming 13.3
New York 12.9
Missouri 12.7
Ohio 12.7
Colorado 12.2
Illinois 12.2
Oregon 11.9
Maryland 11.7
Kansas 11.5
Washington 11.4
Minnesota 11.2
Nevada 11
West Virginia 11
Wisconsin 10.9
Alaska 10.8
Indiana 10.8
Michigan 10.7
Kentucky 10.5
South Dakota 10.4
Florida 10.3
Oklahoma 10.3
Arizona 10.2
Idaho 10
Virginia 9.8
Arkansas 9.5
Tennessee 9.3
South Carolina 7.9
Georgia 7.8
Alabama 7.7
California 7.7
North Dakota 7.7
North Carolina 7.4
Texas 7.2
Louisiana 7
Mississippi 6.9
Utah 5.9
D.C. 4.9
Hawaii ?
New Mexico ?

[Јas]

You're one day late. Lá an crúiscín was the fourth. Happy belated congratulations to everyone who knows what I'm referring to btw!

That is indeed a small group.

"The majority of the members of the Irish parliament are professional politicians, in the sense that otherwise they would not be given jobs minding mice at a crossroads."

It's as true today as it was then.