Should the US have a system for banning movies/video games?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No.

And of course, if anyone votes no and says something like "Hell no, it's a complete violation of free speech!", etc. then what makes it OK for places like Ireland and Australia to do so? Because I've noticed an attitude of "It's no big deal" toward bannings in those countries, while if anything was banned here there'd be holy hell.

Even though the first Manhunt wasn't a very good game, I feel like buying Manhunt 2, just as a way of saying "f**k you" to censors in other countries.

[MODU]

Yes, but one that is rarely used.  Such as, movies of actual people being raped (for example) should be banned, as well as child pornography would definitely fall under than ban.

[John Dibble]

No.

Yes, but one that is rarely used.  Such as, movies of actual people being raped (for example) should be banned, as well as child pornography would definitely fall under than ban.

Methinks that falls outside of the realm this question was asking about.

[MODU]

Methinks that falls outside of the realm this question was asking about.

This is BRTD.  He's looking for a way to justify questionable activities.

[John Dibble]

Methinks that falls outside of the realm this question was asking about.

This is BRTD.  He's looking for a way to justify questionable activities.

It's BRTD, not opebo - he's not trying to justify activities that questionable.

[MODU]

Methinks that falls outside of the realm this question was asking about.

This is BRTD.  He's looking for a way to justify questionable activities.

It's BRTD, not opebo - he's not trying to justify activities that questionable.

Such as this? 

[opebo]

Why should a movie of rape be banned?  Lets say there were an intrepid reporter in Nanking when the Japanese were intruding their minute manhoods upon the China-women there - are we to be denied the newsreels?  The documentary?  I don't see why.

[Hotblack Desiato]

Yes, but one that is rarely used.  Such as, movies of actual people being raped (for example) should be banned, as well as child pornography would definitely fall under than ban.

Have you ever heard of something known as the first amendment? Requiring all movies/games to get State approval would violate it strongly. Also if it was set up the chances of it only being used for Child Porn/Snuff Films/Rape videos are astronomically low and not even worth discussing. We would quickly see both liberals getting things banned for being "racially insensitive" or "misogynistic" and conservatives getting things banned for "blasphemy" or "indecency".

[John Dibble]

Why should a movie of rape be banned?  Lets say there were an intrepid reporter in Nanking when the Japanese were intruding their minute manhoods upon the China-women there - are we to be denied the newsreels?  The documentary?  I don't see why.

The privacy of the violated woman isn't enough of a reason for you?

[Gabu]

I don't really care.  In the places where things do get banned, they're generally not without reason (talking in terms of the first world countries, not Middle Eastern and such like countries).  I saw an interview with the Irish guy in charge of the Irish censorship organization about his decision to ban Manhunt 2, and he seemed like a very sensible guy who honestly didn't like banning things.  He wasn't exactly the type of jackbooted fascist that seems to get commonly associated with the topic of censorship.  I honestly thought he justified his position pretty well.

Not saying that my answer is that I do want something like that in North America, but I can understand why it happens.

[opebo]

Why should a movie of rape be banned?  Lets say there were an intrepid reporter in Nanking when the Japanese were intruding their minute manhoods upon the China-women there - are we to be denied the newsreels?  The documentary?  I don't see why.

The privacy of the violated woman isn't enough of a reason for you?

No, not for me, but if you are concerned about that we can block out the faces with thost fuzzy blobs.. that is for the ones we can't get to sign releases afterwards.

[Friz]

Absolutely not.  The industry already suffered under fascist censorship laws on a regular basis until the late 1960s.

[John Dibble]

Why should a movie of rape be banned?  Lets say there were an intrepid reporter in Nanking when the Japanese were intruding their minute manhoods upon the China-women there - are we to be denied the newsreels?  The documentary?  I don't see why.

The privacy of the violated woman isn't enough of a reason for you?

No, not for me, but if you are concerned about that we can block out the faces with thost fuzzy blobs.. that is for the ones we can't get to sign releases afterwards.

So you think it's ok to publicly display the humiliation of a woman who was brutally raped in total violation of her will not to have it displayed? Man, you're even more misogynistic than I thought.

[Gabu]

So you think it's ok to publicly display the humiliation of a woman who was brutally raped in total violation of her will not to have it displayed? Man, you're even more misogynistic than I thought.

Ignore him and he'll talk less, John.

[John Dibble]

So you think it's ok to publicly display the humiliation of a woman who was brutally raped in total violation of her will not to have it displayed? Man, you're even more misogynistic than I thought.

Ignore him and he'll talk less, John.

I have been - it hasn't stopped him.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yes, but one that is rarely used.  Such as, movies of actual people being raped (for example) should be banned, as well as child pornography would definitely fall under than ban.

As Dibble pointed out, that's not what I'm asking about, as such material is already illegal.

I don't really care.  In the places where things do get banned, they're generally not without reason

That doesn't mean it's a GOOD reason. According to Gully Foyle, a movie I own, Spun, is banned in Ireland, and I didn't see anything offensive in that film at all. I also don't find it very fair that I would be prohibited from owning it if I lived in Ireland.

I saw an interview with the Irish guy in charge of the Irish censorship organization about his decision to ban Manhunt 2, and he seemed like a very sensible guy who honestly didn't like banning things.

Then why ban anything? Even if he has that power, he doesn't have to use it.

He wasn't exactly the type of jackbooted fascist that seems to get commonly associated with the topic of censorship.  I honestly thought he justified his position pretty well.

Not saying that my answer is that I do want something like that in North America, but I can understand why it happens.

Understanding something doesn't mean it's not a load of crap. I can understand why some municipalities are dry, but that doesn't mean it's a position I find logical and that I wouldn't be 100% opposed to happening in where I live.

[Јas]

Yes, but one that is rarely used.  Such as, movies of actual people being raped (for example) should be banned, as well as child pornography would definitely fall under than ban.

As Dibble pointed out, that's not what I'm asking about, as such material is already illegal.

I don't really care.  In the places where things do get banned, they're generally not without reason

That doesn't mean it's a GOOD reason. According to Gully Foyle, a movie I own, Spun, is banned in Ireland, and I didn't see anything offensive in that film at all. I also don't find it very fair that I would be prohibited from owning it if I lived in Ireland.

Spun was originally denied a certificate; but was granted an 18 certificate on appeal.

Even if it was 'banned' (and I've already explained to you that I don't agree with the use of the word in this context), you wouldn't be prohibited from owning it - you would be prohibited from broadcasting it in a commercial cinema. I understand this level of nuance may be beyond you, but I think it's worth trying to clarify nonetheless.

[Јas]

Even though the first Manhunt wasn't a very good game, I feel like buying Manhunt 2, just as a way of saying "f**k you" to censors in other countries.

Yes, I heard that John Kelleher, the Irish Film Censor, had to cry himself to sleep when he found out about this.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Even though the first Manhunt wasn't a very good game, I feel like buying Manhunt 2, just as a way of saying "f**k you" to censors in other countries.

Yes, I heard that John Kelleher, the Irish Film Censor, had to cry himself to sleep when he found out about this.

Which IIRC was one of only two things he has banned since coming to that office in 2003.. (and certainly Manhunt 2 was the first video game to be banned in Ireland.)

It was to be said though, that the level of Moral 'prudery' (as you put it) in Ireland is nothing like in America. For a start there is no religious right except for some tiny groups which only seem to appear everytime there is a referendum on Abortion or the EU or Divorce. There are many things I dislike about my country BRTD, but social conservativism is not it, at least not in the 2000s (social conformism on the other hand.. But then again with your Che Guevara t-Shirts and oh-so-cool "leftism" you would know alot about that wouldn't you?)

Goddamn it BRTD why must you hate Ireland so must I have defend it every time you post?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yes, but one that is rarely used.  Such as, movies of actual people being raped (for example) should be banned, as well as child pornography would definitely fall under than ban.

As Dibble pointed out, that's not what I'm asking about, as such material is already illegal.

I don't really care.  In the places where things do get banned, they're generally not without reason

That doesn't mean it's a GOOD reason. According to Gully Foyle, a movie I own, Spun, is banned in Ireland, and I didn't see anything offensive in that film at all. I also don't find it very fair that I would be prohibited from owning it if I lived in Ireland.

Spun was originally denied a certificate; but was granted an 18 certificate on appeal.

Even if it was 'banned' (and I've already explained to you that I don't agree with the use of the word in this context), you wouldn't be prohibited from owning it - you would be prohibited from broadcasting it in a commercial cinema. I understand this level of nuance may be beyond you, but I think it's worth trying to clarify nonetheless.

Yes, I understand that, but it's still a ridiculous and repressive restriction.

Even though the first Manhunt wasn't a very good game, I feel like buying Manhunt 2, just as a way of saying "f**k you" to censors in other countries.

Yes, I heard that John Kelleher, the Irish Film Censor, had to cry himself to sleep when he found out about this.

He probably doesn't care, but people like the idiot who made this video might: http://youtube.com/watch?v=hdhDwtHnizs

He probably would care if I were smuggling copies into Ireland or importing them, since otherwise he wouldn't have banned it. I can't smuggle them but I would love to ebay one to an Irish person.

Which IIRC was one of only two things he has banned since coming to that office in 2003.. (and certainly Manhunt 2 was the first video game to be banned in Ireland.)

Doesn't matter. NOTHING should be banned. The ability to do so shouldn't even exist.

It was to be said though, that the level of Moral 'prudery' (as you put it) in Ireland is nothing like in America. For a start there is no religious right except for some tiny groups which only seem to appear everytime there is a referendum on Abortion or the EU or Divorce. There are many things I dislike about my country BRTD, but social conservativism is not it, at least not in the 2000s (social conformism on the other hand.. But then again with your Che Guevara t-Shirts and oh-so-cool "leftism" you would know alot about that wouldn't you?)

However:

1-The US doesn't ban media and has no mechanism for doing so.
2-I can't think of anywhere where the US is more socially repressive than Ireland. Sodomy laws back before 2003 I suppose, but that was only the south, and I sure as hell don't care about them.

Goddamn it BRTD why must you hate Ireland so must I have defend it every time you post?

It mostly comes from my anti-Catholicism.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

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Historically speaking it was English who imported Moral prudery into Ireland (Ireland was one of the most sexually liberal countries in Europe until the mid-16th Century.. and also one of the most religious in a devotional sense; though how seriously the church was taken is shown by the fact that the priesthood was often a hereditary positions). It was only forces of the Reformation, the Counter-Reformation and later Cultural nationalism and revival which created the stifling attitude towards sexuality which is commonly associated with Ireland. Which reached it's peak after independance, especially after WWII but eventually died down with Liberal Victory after the Cultural wars of the 80s and 90s. I would still not describe Ireland as a liberal country, because it's not, but it's attitude towards sex is alot less conservative than previous. Certainly apart from some very rural areas; I don't think there is much of a stigma against Homosexuality any more. It's not even an issue in a political sense anyway, everyone except one or two die-hards has accepted the liberal arguement. (51% of Irish approve of Gay Marriage.. Americans?)

Btw, The Magdalene launderies were originally formed in Calvinist Scotland. But like everything else once Imported into Ireland it was rebranded in a particularly Irish way.

And also here it should be pointed out that I am not a Catholic. And up until the said Cultural nationalism the Protestant population in Ireland was probably the most conservative. (And in certain ways, still is. And in other ways, is the most liberal. The role of those with Anglican birth like me is sort of complicated. Even though I've turned greatly against my church.)

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Ridiculous? Yes. Repressive? There are some monks in Burma who would disagree with that...

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From experience I can tell you that Irish people are way ahead of you at that. It's only illegal to supply it with intent to sell.

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Agree. But I was trying to bust your notion of Ireland being a catholic dominated state which it's not.

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NC-17 Rating anyone?

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You have no clue, do you? Ireland was never much of conservative place; it was always a conformist place. But not now, The area I live in (when I'm in Dublin) is far, far from conservative in the American sense. Yes I know about the law, but I'm talking about what people actually do, which is important.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

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Historically speaking it was English who imported Moral prudery into Ireland (Ireland was one of the most sexually liberal countries in Europe until the mid-16th Century.. and also one of the most religious in a devotional sense; though how seriously the church was taken is shown by the fact that the priesthood was often a hereditary positions). It was only forces of the Reformation, the Counter-Reformation and later Cultural nationalism and revival which created the stifling attitude towards sexuality which is commonly associated with Ireland. Which reached it's peak after independance, especially after WWII but eventually died down with Liberal Victory after the Cultural wars of the 80s and 90s. I would still not describe Ireland as a liberal country, because it's not, but it's attitude towards sex is alot less conservative than previous. Certainly apart from some very rural areas; I don't think there is much of a stigma against Homosexuality any more. It's not even an issue in a political sense anyway, everyone except one or two die-hards has accepted the liberal arguement. (51% of Irish approve of Gay Marriage.. Americans?)

Btw, The Magdalene launderies were originally formed in Calvinist Scotland. But like everything else once Imported into Ireland it was rebranded in a particularly Irish way.

Somewhat interesting, but not really relevant to the modern day.

Ridiculous? Yes. Repressive? There are some monks in Burma who would disagree with that...

There's different levels of repression. It's not on Burma's level, but it's still repression.

From experience I can tell you that Irish people are way ahead of you at that. It's only illegal to supply it with intent to sell.

Then what's the whole point of a ban?

NC-17 Rating anyone?

NC-17 movies are banned? That's interesting. I must've imagined the countless ones I've seen in rental places, or the ads I saw for Showgirls, The Dreamers and A Dirty Shame when they were playing in theaters. Much of this was in the middle of North Dakota by the way.

NC-17 ratings, or any moving ratings for that matter, are not imposed by the government either.

You have no clue, do you? Ireland was never much of conservative place; it was always a conformist place. But not now, The area I live in (when I'm in Dublin) is far, far from conservative in the American sense. Yes I know about the law, but I'm talking about what people actually do, which is important.

The law's what matters most.

[Ebowed]

1-The US doesn't ban media and has no mechanism for doing so.

The US isn't exactly a free speech utopia.  Even if certain things aren't banned by statute, government and media pressure censors a lot of legitimate news and opinion.

Frankly, I think it is within the Qwest CEO's rights as a citizen to utilize free speech and freedom of the press to explain what the Bush administration requested of his company.  But the federal government has prohibited him from doing so.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

1-The US doesn't ban media and has no mechanism for doing so.

The US isn't exactly a free speech utopia.  Even if certain things aren't banned by statute, government and media pressure censors a lot of legitimate news and opinion.

Frankly, I think it is within the Qwest CEO's rights as a citizen to utilize free speech and freedom of the press to explain what the Bush administration requested of his company.  But the federal government has prohibited him from doing so.

True, but that's a completely different area than banning video games and movies.

[Јas]

Ridiculous? Yes. Repressive? There are some monks in Burma who would disagree with that...

There's different levels of repression. It's not on Burma's level, but it's still repression.

I don't agree with it, but it's neither ridiculous nor repressive.
It's a system which operates under clear guidelines; with an avenue of appeal; and is amendable by our democratically elected legislature.

Repressive countries tend to flagrantly abuse the rule of law. And if you want, feel free to run a comparison of Ireland and America on that scale.

From experience I can tell you that Irish people are way ahead of you at that. It's only illegal to supply it with intent to sell.

Then what's the whole point of a ban?

You've diverted yourself because you continue to use the word 'ban' and so connote with that the actual meaning of 'ban'as opposed to the actual systme in practice here.