What is wrong with public schools?

[memphis]

I am not of the opinion that there is so much wrong with public schools. There are a lot of problems in certain  neighborhoods that do not magically vanish when kids from these areas walk in the front door. This is not the fault of the schools, which are often the only decent institution in these areas.

[opebo]

That explains a lot.

Obviously, comrade, I know support the dictatorship of the proletariat and the nationalization of all capital. All power to the proletariat!

Really Bono just because I believe that the government should provide some services that makes me a communist. Then again you probably consider anyone in favour of government an oppressive authoritarian.

Bono is in favor of State control, Colin, he's just too deluded to see it.

[Gustaf]

My argument is that since there are public schools that are doing fine, why should they be abolished?

So, your argument works like this: If one can find one example from a category which "is doing fine" there is no reason to worry about that entire category? So, for instance, if I could find one resident of New Orleans doing fine after Katrina there would be no need to do anything about it?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

My argument is that since there are public schools that are doing fine, why should they be abolished?

So, your argument works like this: If one can find one example from a category which "is doing fine" there is no reason to worry about that entire category? So, for instance, if I could find one resident of New Orleans doing fine after Katrina there would be no need to do anything about it?

There's plenty of other good public schools too. I actually don't know anyone who did go to a public school that's like what conservatives bitch about.

You really support abolishing public schools?

[Alcon]

There's plenty of other good public schools too. I actually don't know anyone who did go to a public school that's like what conservatives bitch about.

You really support abolishing public schools?

You seem to be operating under the very mistaken assumption that questioning your logic means we disagree with your overall opinion.

[Verily]

That explains a lot.

Obviously, comrade, I know support the dictatorship of the proletariat and the nationalization of all capital. All power to the proletariat!

Really Bono just because I believe that the government should provide some services that makes me a communist. Then again you probably consider anyone in favour of government an oppressive authoritarian.

Fixed for you.

[Gustaf]

My argument is that since there are public schools that are doing fine, why should they be abolished?

So, your argument works like this: If one can find one example from a category which "is doing fine" there is no reason to worry about that entire category? So, for instance, if I could find one resident of New Orleans doing fine after Katrina there would be no need to do anything about it?

There's plenty of other good public schools too. I actually don't know anyone who did go to a public school that's like what conservatives bitch about.

You really support abolishing public schools?

Ok, so if there are plenty of examples (i'm guessing we're talking single digits here) then it's all fine? I'll give you an example of your argumentation. No one in the suburb where I grew up needed welfare benefits. So I don't understand why people say there is this "need" for it. Why not abolish it?

(and no, just like I don't support removing welfare I also don't support abolishing public schools. I only support abolishing your arguments)

[Хahar 🤔]

Just money. We need...[manical ranting]taxes. Taxes. Taxes. TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111[/maniacal ranting]

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Ok, so if there are plenty of examples (i'm guessing we're talking single digits here) then it's all fine? I'll give you an example of your argumentation. No one in the suburb where I grew up needed welfare benefits. So I don't understand why people say there is this "need" for it. Why not abolish it?

Your argument is the exact reverse of mine. You're arguing FOR the abolishment of something, while I am AGAINST it. So it's not a proper analogy.

Or to put things further, the fact that you aren't aware of people needing welfare benefits doesn't mean there can't be any that don't. But the fact that good public schools exist does in itself destroy the conservative argument that they are all horrible and the entire system needs to be privatized.

This is actually a clear implementation of the scientific method. There are many theorems saying things like "There is no number that meets XYZ properties" that have yet to be proven, enough no one has yet to find an exception to this rule. But that's not enough in mathematics and thus they are still considered just theories, not accepted mathematical facts. And if even one exception can be found, that disproves the whole theorem.

(and no, just like I don't support removing welfare I also don't support abolishing public schools. I only support abolishing your arguments)

So what type of argument would you consider a valid one against abolishing public schools?

[Gustaf]

Ok, so if there are plenty of examples (i'm guessing we're talking single digits here) then it's all fine? I'll give you an example of your argumentation. No one in the suburb where I grew up needed welfare benefits. So I don't understand why people say there is this "need" for it. Why not abolish it?

Your argument is the exact reverse of mine. You're arguing FOR the abolishment of something, while I am AGAINST it. So it's not a proper analogy.

Or to put things further, the fact that you aren't aware of people needing welfare benefits doesn't mean there can't be any that don't. But the fact that good public schools exist does in itself destroy the conservative argument that they are all horrible and the entire system needs to be privatized.

This is actually a clear implementation of the scientific method. There are many theorems saying things like "There is no number that meets XYZ properties" that have yet to be proven, enough no one has yet to find an exception to this rule. But that's not enough in mathematics and thus they are still considered just theories, not accepted mathematical facts. And if even one exception can be found, that disproves the whole theorem.

(and no, just like I don't support removing welfare I also don't support abolishing public schools. I only support abolishing your arguments)

So what type of argument would you consider a valid one against abolishing public schools?

Your counter-arguments are kind of irrelevant, but ok, I'll think up another analogy. World War II was a good war. This clearly disproves the leftist idea that wars are bad. So why not have wars?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Wow, you call my arguments bad and then use something that stupidly simplistic?

Yes, all wars are bad. No World War II was not a good war, in fact it was probably the greatest travesty in human history. Now whether it was a JUST war is a better argument, and leftists don't say all wars are automatically wrong. Everyone simply judges wars on a case by case basis, some people just set the threshold for what's just and what's not lower. If you want to use this as argument against pacifism, it's valid, but not for arguing that wars like Vietnam, Iraq, or invading Canada would be unjust.

You still also didn't give an example of a valid argument for public schools. Though this post isn't so much of an argument for it but a rebuttal of the claims made about them by far right wingers/Gully Foyle

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I really don't see how Public schools are doing "fine" therefore I can't accept your point.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I really don't see how Public schools are doing "fine" therefore I can't accept your point.

Because the graduation/college admission rates and GPAs of mine and many others were excellent.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I really don't see how Public schools are doing "fine" therefore I can't accept your point.

Because the graduation/college admission rates and GPAs of mine and many others were excellent.

And that's how you judge how good a school is? Because it isn't my defintion.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's the standard accepted by...well everyone in academia.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

It's the standard accepted by...well everyone in academia.

Excellent. That's Exactly why you shouldn't accept it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's a lot better than your blue-opeboish attitude here (abolish public schools and the children of poors go to the "school of hard knocks")

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I'm going to post this here and wonder what the response will be - I don't agree with ALL of it but alot of it I think is true.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm

[Gustaf]

Wow, you call my arguments bad and then use something that stupidly simplistic?

Yes, all wars are bad. No World War II was not a good war, in fact it was probably the greatest travesty in human history. Now whether it was a JUST war is a better argument, and leftists don't say all wars are automatically wrong. Everyone simply judges wars on a case by case basis, some people just set the threshold for what's just and what's not lower. If you want to use this as argument against pacifism, it's valid, but not for arguing that wars like Vietnam, Iraq, or invading Canada would be unjust.

You still also didn't give an example of a valid argument for public schools. Though this post isn't so much of an argument for it but a rebuttal of the claims made about them by far right wingers/Gully Foyle

It doesn't seem like you understand the point of making an analogy at all...but, ok.

WWII was a just war. This clearly disproves the leftist argument that all wars are unjust. So why not have wars?

Again, you pointing out that the above is a bad argument indicates that you're missing the point. Yes, it is exactly as bad as your argument for public schools.

And I'll give you a valid argument against abolishing public schools. Everyone ought to have at least something of a chance at success in society; therefore even those who would not be able to afford education under a private system should have the possibility through public education. This can be phrased as a rights argument if you're a liberal or socialist but it can also be framed as a societal argument - it makes good sense for society as a whole to let the poor but intelligent orphan contribute by being an engineer instead of having to swipe the floors. This is primarily an argument for public founding though, not for public running of the schools.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

The soda machines not working before 3:00 PM here in NY state.