November Southeast Ballot Initiatives

[Bacon King]

Propose them here; you know the drill.

[Willy Woz]

Am I qualified?

[Robespierre's Jaw]

Am I qualified?

You are qualified to vote Willy Woz. I think you have to get 100 posts to be able to run for the Senate or Governor and 500 posts to run for President. I'm sure about the Senate one, likewise with the Gubernatorial one. Not sure about the Presidential one. Hope this helped

[Bacon King]

Am I qualified?

Any resident of the southeast may propose an initiative or amendment for the ballot. Note that three signatures are required for ballot placement.

[Willy Woz]

Arkansas voters only:

Arkansas Abortion Initiative

1. Pursuant to the Community Choice Initiative (97), the state of Arkansas hereby bans the practice of abortion in all cases, except to save the life of the mother.

2. Any person who performs abortion an abortion in the state of Arkansas will be found guilty of First Degree Murder.

3. Any woman who abtains an abortion, except to save her life, will recieve a penalty of imprisonment ranging from 5-15 years.

[Sensei]

Don't these things only go for whole regions, rather than states?

[Willy Woz]

Don't these things only go for whole regions, rather than states?

No. Haven't you ever heard of the "Community Choice Initiative", as well as the "Louisiana Abortion Initiative" and the "South Carolina Abortion Initiative".

[Verily]

Don't these things only go for whole regions, rather than states?

No. Haven't you ever heard of the "Community Choice Initiative", as well as the "Louisiana Abortion Initiative" and the "South Carolina Abortion Initiative".

Not in Atlasia. States have no legislative or executive government here.

[TomC]

No, Willy Woz is partially correct. The Community Choice Initiative allows "municipalities" to make laws restricting abortions:

Community Choice Initiative

Section One

Municipalities in the Southeast shall be permitted to enact laws blocking any facility that preforms abortions from its jurisdiction.

Section Two

This initiative shall not be construed to include hospitals, which may perform life saving abortions, in the aforementioned definition of "facility".

However, detesting the lack of clarity on what defines "municipality, I proposed and got passed the

Clarification of "Municipality" Initiative

 For the purposes of Southeast initiatives and regulations, the term "municipality" shall be defined as "locality such as a city, county, town or other geographical and governmental unit within a state." "Municipal" shall be defined as referring to a municipality. "Municipal" and "municipality" shall not be synonymous with the word "state" unless a state and municipality are decreed one and the same by an act of regional law.

Perhaps the other two laws are grandfathered in before the passage of the Clarification Act, but Arkansas is by definition NOT a municipality. You can't outlaw abortion in Arkansas, but perhaps you can in a place called hope.

[Willy Woz]

No, Willy Woz is partially correct. The Community Choice Initiative allows "municipalities" to make laws restricting abortions:

Community Choice Initiative

Section One

Municipalities in the Southeast shall be permitted to enact laws blocking any facility that preforms abortions from its jurisdiction.

Section Two

This initiative shall not be construed to include hospitals, which may perform life saving abortions, in the aforementioned definition of "facility".

However, detesting the lack of clarity on what defines "municipality, I proposed and got passed the

Clarification of "Municipality" Initiative

 For the purposes of Southeast initiatives and regulations, the term "municipality" shall be defined as "locality such as a city, county, town or other geographical and governmental unit within a state." "Municipal" shall be defined as referring to a municipality. "Municipal" and "municipality" shall not be synonymous with the word "state" unless a state and municipality are decreed one and the same by an act of regional law.

Perhaps the other two laws are grandfathered in before the passage of the Clarification Act, but Arkansas is by definition NOT a municipality. You can't outlaw abortion in Arkansas, but perhaps you can in a place called hope.

So, what? Does that mean abortions are still legal in Louisiana and South Carolina?

[Ebowed]

Does that mean abortions are still legal in Louisiana and South Carolina?

Have you read your region's other abortion laws?  Abortion is de facto illegal everywhere, not just LA and SC.

[Bacon King]

Considering the Clarification of "Municipality" Initiative, it would appear that the South Carolina and Louisiana Abortion Initiatives are not valid law, as I don't see anything defining the states as municipalities.

Also, no initiatives from March or later are up. How would I go about getting a Wiki account to put them there?

[Willy Woz]

Rewritten:

Arkansas Counties voters only:

Arkansas Counties Abortion Initiative

1. Pursuant to the Community Choice Initiative (97), the following Arkansas counties hereby ban the practice of abortion in all cases, except to save the life of the mother:
Arkansas County
Ashley County
Baxter County
Benton County
Boone County
Bradley County
Calhoun County
Carroll County
Chicot County
Clark County
Clay County
Cleburne County
Cleveland County
Columbia County
Conway County
Craighead County
Crawford County
Crittenden County
Cross County
Dallas County
Desha County
Drew County
Faulkner County
Franklin County
Fulton County
Garland County
Grant County
Greene County
Hempstead County
Hot Spring County
Howard County
Independence County
Izard County
Jackson County
Jefferson County
Johnson County
Lafayette County
Lawrence County
Lee County
Lincoln County
Little River County
Logan County
Lonoke County
Madison County
Marion County
Miller County
Mississippi County
Monroe County
Montgomery County
Nevada County
Newton County
Ouachita County
Perry County
Phillips County
Pike County
Poinsett County
Polk County
Pope County
Prairie County
Pulaski County
Randolph County
Saline County
Scott County
Searcy County
Sebastian County
Sevier County
Sharp County
St. Francis County
Stone County
Union County
Van Buren County
Washington County
White County
Woodruff County
Yell County


2. Any person who performs abortion an abortion in these counties will be found guilty of First Degree Murder.

3. Any woman who abtains an abortion, except to save her life, will recieve a penalty of imprisonment ranging from 5-15 years.

[Verily]

Rewritten:

Arkansas Counties voters only:

Arkansas Counties Abortion Initiative

1. Pursuant to the Community Choice Initiative (97), the following Arkansas counties hereby ban the practice of abortion in all cases, except to save the life of the mother:
Arkansas County
Ashley County
Baxter County
Benton County
Boone County
Bradley County
Calhoun County
Carroll County
Chicot County
Clark County
Clay County
Cleburne County
Cleveland County
Columbia County
Conway County
Craighead County
Crawford County
Crittenden County
Cross County
Dallas County
Desha County
Drew County
Faulkner County
Franklin County
Fulton County
Garland County
Grant County
Greene County
Hempstead County
Hot Spring County
Howard County
Independence County
Izard County
Jackson County
Jefferson County
Johnson County
Lafayette County
Lawrence County
Lee County
Lincoln County
Little River County
Logan County
Lonoke County
Madison County
Marion County
Miller County
Mississippi County
Monroe County
Montgomery County
Nevada County
Newton County
Ouachita County
Perry County
Phillips County
Pike County
Poinsett County
Polk County
Pope County
Prairie County
Pulaski County
Randolph County
Saline County
Scott County
Searcy County
Sebastian County
Sevier County
Sharp County
St. Francis County
Stone County
Union County
Van Buren County
Washington County
White County
Woodruff County
Yell County


2. Any person who performs abortion an abortion in these counties will be found guilty of First Degree Murder.

3. Any woman who abtains an abortion, except to save her life, will recieve a penalty of imprisonment ranging from 5-15 years.

I suppose it hasn't been defined, but counties are also not municipalities. Only, well, municipalities are municipalities. Someone will eventually pass a law pointing this out, and this proposal, too, will be invalid.

[Willy Woz]

Rewritten:

Arkansas Counties voters only:

Arkansas Counties Abortion Initiative

1. Pursuant to the Community Choice Initiative (97), the following Arkansas counties hereby ban the practice of abortion in all cases, except to save the life of the mother:
Arkansas County
Ashley County
Baxter County
Benton County
Boone County
Bradley County
Calhoun County
Carroll County
Chicot County
Clark County
Clay County
Cleburne County
Cleveland County
Columbia County
Conway County
Craighead County
Crawford County
Crittenden County
Cross County
Dallas County
Desha County
Drew County
Faulkner County
Franklin County
Fulton County
Garland County
Grant County
Greene County
Hempstead County
Hot Spring County
Howard County
Independence County
Izard County
Jackson County
Jefferson County
Johnson County
Lafayette County
Lawrence County
Lee County
Lincoln County
Little River County
Logan County
Lonoke County
Madison County
Marion County
Miller County
Mississippi County
Monroe County
Montgomery County
Nevada County
Newton County
Ouachita County
Perry County
Phillips County
Pike County
Poinsett County
Polk County
Pope County
Prairie County
Pulaski County
Randolph County
Saline County
Scott County
Searcy County
Sebastian County
Sevier County
Sharp County
St. Francis County
Stone County
Union County
Van Buren County
Washington County
White County
Woodruff County
Yell County


2. Any person who performs abortion an abortion in these counties will be found guilty of First Degree Murder.

3. Any woman who abtains an abortion, except to save her life, will recieve a penalty of imprisonment ranging from 5-15 years.

I suppose it hasn't been defined, but counties are also not municipalities. Only, well, municipalities are municipalities. Someone will eventually pass a law pointing this out, and this proposal, too, will be invalid.

Actually, they are defined as such. Why do you think dry counties are called dry municipalities?

[Verily]

Rewritten:

Arkansas Counties voters only:
<snip>

I suppose it hasn't been defined, but counties are also not municipalities. Only, well, municipalities are municipalities. Someone will eventually pass a law pointing this out, and this proposal, too, will be invalid.

Actually, they are defined as such. Why do you think dry counties are called dry municipalities?

Errr... because they aren't? A municipality is a town or city or village. A county is not a municipality or vice versa, and dry counties are not called dry municipalities (though the towns within them might be).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality

Someone will change that definition to be true.

[Willy Woz]

Rewritten:

Arkansas Counties voters only:
<snip>

I suppose it hasn't been defined, but counties are also not municipalities. Only, well, municipalities are municipalities. Someone will eventually pass a law pointing this out, and this proposal, too, will be invalid.

Actually, they are defined as such. Why do you think dry counties are called dry municipalities?

Errr... because they aren't? A municipality is a town or city or village. A county is not a municipality or vice versa, and dry counties are not called dry municipalities (though the towns within them might be).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality

Someone will change that definition to be true.

Yes, but also your initiative states that nothing can be decided at a state level. It dosen't even mention the possibility of county governments. Therefore, my initiative is not invalid.

[Bacon King]

Lets see. A county actually is a municipality according to Southeastern Law (see the Clarification of Municipality Amendment).

However, Woz, your initiative is silly; that would not be a statewide referendum but actually 48 seperate county referenda. And then, we're getting into confusing ground, because legally there's no definition of residence at the sub-state level. If you really want try to ban abortion in Arkansas that badly, just propose an initiative saying that states can ban abortion.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think that such community iniatives specified in the Community Choice Initiative were meant to be actually voted upon in the forum. But that's a different matter entirely. Prededent would be on your side, I guess.

BTW, I'll be proposing some initiatives shortly.

[TomC]

Willy Woz, which county do you reside in? You don't have the authority to impose laws on municipalities that you don't live in.

[Willy Woz]

Willy Woz, which county do you reside in? You don't have the authority to impose laws on municipalities that you don't live in.

Funny you said that, considering you were the one behind the Louisiana Abortion Initiative, and yet I am pretty sure you were never registered in LA...

[TomC]

Willy Woz, which county do you reside in? You don't have the authority to impose laws on municipalities that you don't live in.

Funny you said that, considering you were the one behind the Louisiana Abortion Initiative, and yet I am pretty sure you were never registered in LA...

Excuse me??? I did not propose the law nor did I vote on the law. as governor of the Southeast, I placed the initiative on the ballot with instructions that only Louisiana residents could vote on that. If you feel that act was a violation under the SE Constiutution, I urge you to sue. I frankly want no part in taking rights away from individuals and their doctors. Further, if you feel municipal initiatives are inappropriate for the governor of the SE to place on the ballot, why did you place your initiative here?

Or were you just ducking my question? If you are to propose a municipal initiative, please indicate which municipality you are a resident of. You may not simutaneously be a resident of more than one.

[Bacon King]

Wait a minute, Woz isn't even registered in Arkansas. He's in NC. See:

Willy Woz
NC
Life & Liberty Party

Sorry, Woz, but I'm almost certain that an individual can't pass such a community initiative in a municipality that isn't his own.

[Willy Woz]

Now I am officially registered in Arkansas (temporarily at least)

[Bacon King]

Now I am officially registered in Arkansas (temporarily at least)

Sorry to be hounding on you again, but I'm pretty sure there's some amount of time that must elapse before you can reregister in a new location.

[Hash]

Yes, 60 days.