France General Discussion
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 04:33:30 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  International General Discussion (Moderators: afleitch, Hash)
  France General Discussion
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 ... 40
Author Topic: France General Discussion  (Read 131109 times)
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #300 on: May 05, 2009, 12:10:42 PM »


A swindling, but not a crook.


Giscard (whom I don't like for other reasons) led far greater "social" reforms.
Mitterrand, as Giscard and Chirac, was unable to trim health and pensions costs. He recruited many civil servants (I'm one of them...) who are a heavy financial burden now.
As Giscard, he broke down the education system, by dropping emulation and republican elitism.
He practiced the old "Françafrique" policy (as every president).
He had many corrupted friends (Pelat, Grossouvre, who committed suicide inside the walls of Elysée palace).
He supported (with John Major) Serbian regime, which was a real shame on France and UK.

Mitterrand of course had good points: "décentralisation" (devolution of some powers to local councils), a pro-American foreign policy during the Cold War and in the Gulf, a decisive boost of Euroepan integration (with Kohl and Delors).
But they are far overweighted by bad points.

Sorry, I stupidly meant "social" in the french sense of the term, that's "economically progressive". I spoke about 39 hours/week, 5th payd vacantions week, lower retirement age, etc...
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,401
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #301 on: May 09, 2009, 09:21:24 PM »



I don't often post about sports, but today's final for the Coupe de France opposed two Breton teams. Roazhon (Rennes) and Gwengamp (Guingamp, a city of 8000 people in western Cotes-d'Armor). Rennes won in 1965 and 1971, Guingamp lost in the 1997 final to Nice.

Guingamp defeated Rennes 2-1. Very surprising since Rennes is by far stronger than Guingamp, and Guingamp has a reputation to lose every match it plays.

Anyways, Bretagne won both ways.

Breizh atao!
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,401
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #302 on: May 13, 2009, 07:52:30 PM »

Well, the Assembly adopted the Hadopi internet fascism law yesterday, after the humiliation in the last week or so.

Assembly

UMP 284 in favour, 6 against (Goulard, the official party rebel and Sarkozy-hater; Denis Jacquat; Franck Marlin, anti-NATO; Lionel Tardy, DVD; Christian Vanneste, the homophobe CNI; Michel Zumkeller, liberal), 17 abstaining (Jean-Paul Anciaux; Yves Bur; Olivier Carré; René Couanau, my MP Smiley; Henri Cuq, villepiniste; Lucien Degauchy, quasi-villepiniste; Yannick Favennec, libertarian; François-Michel Gonnot; Jean-Pierre Grand, villepiniste; Christophe Guilloteau; Pierre Lang; Jacques Le Guen, Breton villepiniste; Lionnel Luca, pro-death penalty slavery-lover; Patrice Martin-Lalande; Jean-Frédéric Poisson, FRS/Christian right; Georges Tron, villepiniste; Marie-Jo Zimmermann, villepiniste), 1 non-voting (Accoyer)
Socialist, PRG, MRC 190 against, 1 in favour (Jack Lang, who probably votes with the government more often than Goulard, lolz), 6 abstaining (Montebourg; Jean Michel; 4 Left Rads)
GDR (Commies + Greenies) 24 against
NC 11 in favour, 6 against (Abelin, Dionis du Séjour, Folliot, Lagarde, Préel, Rochebloine), 5 abstaining (Thierry Benoit, de Courson, Hillmeyer, Le Moal, Leteurtre)
NI, MoDem, DLR 7 against (3 MoDem, 2 MPF, 2 DLR)

557 voting, 529 valid votes, majority of 265. 296 in favour, 233 against.
Logged
PGSable
Rookie
**
Posts: 211
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #303 on: May 13, 2009, 09:50:33 PM »

The European Parliament will vote on a similar measure, Amendment 138, but there is some debate over whether the amendment applies to the Hadopi Law. According to Viviane Reding the CSV European commissioner from Luxembourg for new technologies, it does not.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #304 on: May 14, 2009, 05:09:21 AM »

Well, the Assembly adopted the Hadopi internet fascism law yesterday, after the humiliation in the last week or so.

Assembly

UMP 284 in favour, 6 against (Goulard, the official party rebel and Sarkozy-hater; Denis Jacquat; Franck Marlin, anti-NATO; Lionel Tardy, DVD; Christian Vanneste, the homophobe CNI; Michel Zumkeller, liberal), 17 abstaining (Jean-Paul Anciaux; Yves Bur; Olivier Carré; René Couanau, my MP Smiley; Henri Cuq, villepiniste; Lucien Degauchy, quasi-villepiniste; Yannick Favennec, libertarian; François-Michel Gonnot; Jean-Pierre Grand, villepiniste; Christophe Guilloteau; Pierre Lang; Jacques Le Guen, Breton villepiniste; Lionnel Luca, pro-death penalty slavery-lover; Patrice Martin-Lalande; Jean-Frédéric Poisson, FRS/Christian right; Georges Tron, villepiniste; Marie-Jo Zimmermann, villepiniste), 1 non-voting (Accoyer)
Socialist, PRG, MRC 190 against, 1 in favour (Jack Lang, who probably votes with the government more often than Goulard, lolz), 6 abstaining (Montebourg; Jean Michel; 4 Left Rads)
GDR (Commies + Greenies) 24 against
NC 11 in favour, 6 against (Abelin, Dionis du Séjour, Folliot, Lagarde, Préel, Rochebloine), 5 abstaining (Thierry Benoit, de Courson, Hillmeyer, Le Moal, Leteurtre)
NI, MoDem, DLR 7 against (3 MoDem, 2 MPF, 2 DLR)

557 voting, 529 valid votes, majority of 265. 296 in favour, 233 against.

Very disappointing. But in fact, there is most worse laws ( LRU, HSPT ) against which we need to fight.
Logged
Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #305 on: May 19, 2009, 01:43:28 PM »

Well, the Assembly adopted the Hadopi internet fascism law yesterday, after the humiliation in the last week or so.

I consider it as a bad law, but we can't really say that's fascist.

Personally I root for "License globale", which seems to be, by far, the most interesting regulation we could have here, it could develop a totally new economic model for creation, that could be pretty interesting.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #306 on: May 20, 2009, 03:48:26 PM »

Well, the Assembly adopted the Hadopi internet fascism law yesterday, after the humiliation in the last week or so.

I consider it as a bad law, but we can't really say that's fascist.

Personally I root for "License globale", which seems to be, by far, the most interesting regulation we could have here, it could develop a totally new economic model for creation, that could be pretty interesting.

Yes, that's a great idea that government just predend to ignore.
Logged
Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #307 on: May 28, 2009, 04:03:42 PM »

Julien Coupat is free!
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,401
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #308 on: May 28, 2009, 04:04:39 PM »


PANIC OMG THE TERRORISTSZ IS FREE OMG PANIC
Logged
Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #309 on: May 28, 2009, 04:06:16 PM »


You're making some lipdub with Michelle Alliot Marie words? Lipdub is trendy nowadays...
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,401
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #310 on: May 30, 2009, 08:09:30 PM »

A poll on regional attitudes in Bretagne.

Attachment to Bretagne
Very much attached 65.2%
Relatively attached 29.1%
Attached 94.3%
Relatively unattached 4.4%
Not at all attached 1.1%
Unattached 5.5%

...France
Very much attached 49%
Relatively attached 42.1%
Attached 91.1%
Relatively unattached 6%
Not at all attached 2.8%
Unattached 8.8%

...Europe
Very much attached 28.5%
Relatively attached 38.5%
Attached 67%
Relatively unattached 25.3%
Not at all attached 8.7%
Unattached 34%

Self-description
Breton only 1.5%
More Breton than French 22.5%
French=Breton 50%
More French than Breton 15.4%
French only 9.3%
Others 0.8%

Institutional future (Region, CR)
Region/CR is useless 1.4%
Region/CR should have less power 1.6%
Region/CR has sufficient powers 31.1%
Region/CR should have more devolved powers 51.9%
Region/CR should become an independent nation 4.6%
NSP 9.4%

http://www.agencebretagnepresse.com/pdfs/15280_2.pdf

Good results.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #311 on: May 31, 2009, 02:52:00 AM »

A poll on regional attitudes in Bretagne.

Attachment to Bretagne
Very much attached 65.2%
Relatively attached 29.1%
Attached 94.3%
Relatively unattached 4.4%
Not at all attached 1.1%
Unattached 5.5%

...France
Very much attached 49%
Relatively attached 42.1%
Attached 91.1%
Relatively unattached 6%
Not at all attached 2.8%
Unattached 8.8%

...Europe
Very much attached 28.5%
Relatively attached 38.5%
Attached 67%
Relatively unattached 25.3%
Not at all attached 8.7%
Unattached 34%

Self-description
Breton only 1.5%
More Breton than French 22.5%
French=Breton 50%
More French than Breton 15.4%
French only 9.3%
Others 0.8%

Institutional future (Region, CR)
Region/CR is useless 1.4%
Region/CR should have less power 1.6%
Region/CR has sufficient powers 31.1%
Region/CR should have more devolved powers 51.9%
Region/CR should become an independent nation 4.6%
NSP 9.4%

http://www.agencebretagnepresse.com/pdfs/15280_2.pdf

Good results.

Yeah, I'm only worried by relatively low european attachment, though it isn't very surprising.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #312 on: June 05, 2009, 01:42:14 PM »

Bayrou, you won't get my vote.

I'm not speaking about European elections, since I'm 16. Obviously I'm speaking about the only election who really counts for Bayrou : the 2012 presidential. I'm disappointed, terribly disappointed by his pathetic attacks against Cohn-Bendit. Cohn-Bendit is a great candidate, strongly socially liberal, but also intelligent, moderate and deeply european. He is leading a great and passionating campaign and his good performance in poll don't astonish me. If Monsieur Bayrou wants to be ahead of him, the only thing he has to do is doing a better campaign ( I don't know, for example, speaking about Europe instead of Sarkozy ? ). But no, he chose to attack in the stupidest and ugliest way he could : conspiracy theory and mud-digging personal attacks. I feel really stupid to have believed it could be honest : once again, Hashemite and co were right.
Logged
Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #313 on: June 05, 2009, 03:20:22 PM »

Bayrou, you won't get my vote.

I'm not speaking about European elections, since I'm 16. Obviously I'm speaking about the only election who really counts for Bayrou : the 2012 presidential. I'm disappointed, terribly disappointed by his pathetic attacks against Cohn-Bendit. Cohn-Bendit is a great candidate, strongly socially liberal, but also intelligent, moderate and deeply european. He is leading a great and passionating campaign and his good performance in poll don't astonish me. If Monsieur Bayrou wants to be ahead of him, the only thing he has to do is doing a better campaign ( I don't know, for example, speaking about Europe instead of Sarkozy ? ). But no, he chose to attack in the stupidest and ugliest way he could : conspiracy theory and mud-digging personal attacks. I feel really stupid to have believed it could be honest : once again, Hashemite and co were right.

As I said in the thread on the campaign. I think that's Bayrou has for the first time clearly been in some bad populism during this debate. And I blame it for so. But, to me, compared to other ones, he's still the best for presidentials. The guy clearly made some bad, ugly, mistakes here but frankly Cohn Bendit is far to be a model concerning the fairness of debates, and his campaign that invites people to dance on the ruins of the world is nothing but a shame when it comes to a political proposition.

Frankly, personally, that's the French political class in its whole that I would blame personally.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #314 on: June 06, 2009, 12:53:30 AM »

Heard a political debate yesterday on France Inter. To be honest, I have to say that the one I prefered was Mélenchon. I don't parrticularly agree with his political positions, I'm a strong supporter of European Constitution, but it doesn't change that he was really great yesterday. Jean-François Kahn didn't convince me when he defended Bayrou. The most noteworthy was the horrible confusion, with everybody speaking at the same moment during all the debate.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,401
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #315 on: June 06, 2009, 06:51:36 AM »

Bayrou, you won't get my vote.

I'm not speaking about European elections, since I'm 16. Obviously I'm speaking about the only election who really counts for Bayrou : the 2012 presidential. I'm disappointed, terribly disappointed by his pathetic attacks against Cohn-Bendit. Cohn-Bendit is a great candidate, strongly socially liberal, but also intelligent, moderate and deeply european. He is leading a great and passionating campaign and his good performance in poll don't astonish me. If Monsieur Bayrou wants to be ahead of him, the only thing he has to do is doing a better campaign ( I don't know, for example, speaking about Europe instead of Sarkozy ? ). But no, he chose to attack in the stupidest and ugliest way he could : conspiracy theory and mud-digging personal attacks. I feel really stupid to have believed it could be honest : once again, Hashemite and co were right.

I've said that Bayrou is an egomaniac hypocrite who has no program. While I'm far from being a support of Cohn-Bendit (part of it has to do with my obsession with Georges Marchais) and the Greenies (who aren't in a position to call anybody hypocrites), Bayrou's behaviour was unsurprisingly disgusting. Not only did he have retarded and flawed conspiracies, but his personal attacks was really disgusting. I may have my own ideas on Cohn-Bendit's little stories and the old thing, but I would never use them in an election. As de Gaulle said, je ne pratique pas la politique des couilles molles, which is what Bayrou did.

Of course, the only party I could vote for without taking a shower afterwards is Strollad Breizh. I blame the whole political class for making this discussion about Sarko instead of Europe. Instead of having debates on policy at a time where a strong Europe and a strong France is needed, we have Bayrou calling Cohn-Bendit a pedophile and Cohn-Bendit calling his worthless (I admit, I clapped. The first time I've heard somebody with guts say the truth).
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #316 on: June 16, 2009, 02:05:59 PM »

An interessant article about what we discussed about some time ago, Sarkozy's attitude on secularism. See Marianne #634 page 37-39. Always interesting...
By the was, you can also follow the many articles of Charlie Hebdo, particularly those of Agathe André, Caroline Fourest and Fiammetta Venner. Bad news for secularism...
Logged
Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #317 on: June 16, 2009, 02:31:23 PM »

Well, personally I won't go in this again, I said all what I had to say in the other thread.

But the bumping of this thread makes me thinking to speak about an other topic.

I just took the train today, a regional one, a "ter", between Castres and Toulouse. We're about 9h56 am, the thing is on time, not much people, a beautiful day is coming. Just fine, I go in the train. And what do I see in it? Well, on all the sits, at least all those of my wagon, there was a very nice flier of several pages which incited to you to invest your money in "nexity", the big real estate stuff. Well, I didn't know that the tax of citizens with which is paid the national railroad company was also here to serve the private interests of that company, or that's just a part of the "plan de relance" (our stimulus bill)?? I didn't think to ask the controller how these fliers came on here, if it was the railroad company who did it, or if it was a guy paid by nexity to do that from their own initiative.

Well, anyways, I have been a bit surprised...
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #318 on: June 16, 2009, 02:49:28 PM »

Well, personally I won't go in this again, I said all what I had to say in the other thread.

But the bumping of this thread makes me thinking to speak about an other topic.

I just took the train today, a regional one, a "ter", between Castres and Toulouse. We're about 9h56 am, the thing is on time, not much people, a beautiful day is coming. Just fine, I go in the train. And what do I see in it? Well, on all the sits, at least all those of my wagon, there was a very nice flier of several pages which incited to you to invest your money in "nexity", the big real estate stuff. Well, I didn't know that the tax of citizens with which is paid the national railroad company was also here to serve the private interests of that company, or that's just a part of the "plan de relance" (our stimulus bill)?? I didn't think to ask the controller how these fliers came on here, if it was the railroad company who did it, or if it was a guy paid by nexity to do that from their own initiative.

Well, anyways, I have been a bit surprised...

I hope it's the second option...
Logged
big bad fab
filliatre
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,344
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #319 on: June 16, 2009, 03:36:19 PM »

An interessant article about what we discussed about some time ago, Sarkozy's attitude on secularism. See Marianne #634 page 37-39. Always interesting...
By the was, you can also follow the many articles of Charlie Hebdo, particularly those of Agathe André, Caroline Fourest and Fiammetta Venner. Bad news for secularism...

Please just note that these 3 are the climax of absolute laïcism... They are arch-"laïcardes" !

Would you say "bad news for values" just with articles from Valeurs Actuelles and Figaro-Magazine by François d'Orcival, Henry de Lesquen and Philippe de Villiers  ?

Unlikely, to say the least. So, take a more balanced viewpoint on the subject.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #320 on: June 18, 2009, 11:03:44 AM »

An interessant article about what we discussed about some time ago, Sarkozy's attitude on secularism. See Marianne #634 page 37-39. Always interesting...
By the was, you can also follow the many articles of Charlie Hebdo, particularly those of Agathe André, Caroline Fourest and Fiammetta Venner. Bad news for secularism...

Please just note that these 3 are the climax of absolute laïcism... They are arch-"laïcardes" !

Would you say "bad news for values" just with articles from Valeurs Actuelles and Figaro-Magazine by François d'Orcival, Henry de Lesquen and Philippe de Villiers  ?

Unlikely, to say the least. So, take a more balanced viewpoint on the subject.

Sorry, could you explain me better what "laïcard" exactly means ? I didn't have the impression they were against the practice of religion in the private domain. So they are just secularists.
Logged
big bad fab
filliatre
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,344
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #321 on: June 18, 2009, 04:59:39 PM »

An interessant article about what we discussed about some time ago, Sarkozy's attitude on secularism. See Marianne #634 page 37-39. Always interesting...
By the was, you can also follow the many articles of Charlie Hebdo, particularly those of Agathe André, Caroline Fourest and Fiammetta Venner. Bad news for secularism...

Please just note that these 3 are the climax of absolute laïcism... They are arch-"laïcardes" !

Would you say "bad news for values" just with articles from Valeurs Actuelles and Figaro-Magazine by François d'Orcival, Henry de Lesquen and Philippe de Villiers  ?

Unlikely, to say the least. So, take a more balanced viewpoint on the subject.

Sorry, could you explain me better what "laïcard" exactly means ? I didn't have the impression they were against the practice of religion in the private domain. So they are just secularists.

They write books on the INSIDE of religious organizations (I don't talk about sects, be careful), especially Catholic church, just in order to criticize and make trouble. The "inside", not the public life.
That's "laïcard".

The PRG is a secularist party, for example. Not a "laïcard" one.
Fourest is a "laïcarde", Venner also.
Logged
Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #322 on: June 19, 2009, 08:11:37 AM »

An interessant article about what we discussed about some time ago, Sarkozy's attitude on secularism. See Marianne #634 page 37-39. Always interesting...
By the was, you can also follow the many articles of Charlie Hebdo, particularly those of Agathe André, Caroline Fourest and Fiammetta Venner. Bad news for secularism...

Please just note that these 3 are the climax of absolute laïcism... They are arch-"laïcardes" !

Would you say "bad news for values" just with articles from Valeurs Actuelles and Figaro-Magazine by François d'Orcival, Henry de Lesquen and Philippe de Villiers  ?

Unlikely, to say the least. So, take a more balanced viewpoint on the subject.

Sorry, could you explain me better what "laïcard" exactly means ? I didn't have the impression they were against the practice of religion in the private domain. So they are just secularists.

They write books on the INSIDE of religious organizations (I don't talk about sects, be careful), especially Catholic church, just in order to criticize and make trouble. The "inside", not the public life.
That's "laïcard".

The PRG is a secularist party, for example. Not a "laïcard" one.
Fourest is a "laïcarde", Venner also.

They might be "laïcard" as you say, they might critize some religious organizations but they do it in the perspective of defending their opinion, their point of view on such or such domain. I don't see in what this point of view would be less legitimate than an other one.
Logged
big bad fab
filliatre
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,344
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #323 on: June 19, 2009, 08:38:05 AM »

An interessant article about what we discussed about some time ago, Sarkozy's attitude on secularism. See Marianne #634 page 37-39. Always interesting...
By the was, you can also follow the many articles of Charlie Hebdo, particularly those of Agathe André, Caroline Fourest and Fiammetta Venner. Bad news for secularism...

Please just note that these 3 are the climax of absolute laïcism... They are arch-"laïcardes" !

Would you say "bad news for values" just with articles from Valeurs Actuelles and Figaro-Magazine by François d'Orcival, Henry de Lesquen and Philippe de Villiers  ?

Unlikely, to say the least. So, take a more balanced viewpoint on the subject.

Sorry, could you explain me better what "laïcard" exactly means ? I didn't have the impression they were against the practice of religion in the private domain. So they are just secularists.

They write books on the INSIDE of religious organizations (I don't talk about sects, be careful), especially Catholic church, just in order to criticize and make trouble. The "inside", not the public life.
That's "laïcard".

The PRG is a secularist party, for example. Not a "laïcard" one.
Fourest is a "laïcarde", Venner also.

They might be "laïcard" as you say, they might critize some religious organizations but they do it in the perspective of defending their opinion, their point of view on such or such domain. I don't see in what this point of view would be less legitimate than an other one.

Read again from the beginning.
Antonio wrote "bad news...".
I just wanted to say that articles by Fourest and Venner are NOT news, they are opinions and they are biased opinions.
An article by François d'Orcival on values is NOT news, it's a point of view.

And our discussion has taken another path, on the word "laïcard".
Fourest and Venner are not traditional secularists as the PRG, they are more than that: they fight religion even in the private sphere. So, their articles are all the more biased.
Logged
Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #324 on: June 19, 2009, 09:09:13 AM »

An interessant article about what we discussed about some time ago, Sarkozy's attitude on secularism. See Marianne #634 page 37-39. Always interesting...
By the was, you can also follow the many articles of Charlie Hebdo, particularly those of Agathe André, Caroline Fourest and Fiammetta Venner. Bad news for secularism...

Please just note that these 3 are the climax of absolute laïcism... They are arch-"laïcardes" !

Would you say "bad news for values" just with articles from Valeurs Actuelles and Figaro-Magazine by François d'Orcival, Henry de Lesquen and Philippe de Villiers  ?

Unlikely, to say the least. So, take a more balanced viewpoint on the subject.

Sorry, could you explain me better what "laïcard" exactly means ? I didn't have the impression they were against the practice of religion in the private domain. So they are just secularists.

They write books on the INSIDE of religious organizations (I don't talk about sects, be careful), especially Catholic church, just in order to criticize and make trouble. The "inside", not the public life.
That's "laïcard".

The PRG is a secularist party, for example. Not a "laïcard" one.
Fourest is a "laïcarde", Venner also.

They might be "laïcard" as you say, they might critize some religious organizations but they do it in the perspective of defending their opinion, their point of view on such or such domain. I don't see in what this point of view would be less legitimate than an other one.

Read again from the beginning.
Antonio wrote "bad news...".
I just wanted to say that articles by Fourest and Venner are NOT news, they are opinions and they are biased opinions.
An article by François d'Orcival on values is NOT news, it's a point of view.

And our discussion has taken another path, on the word "laïcard".
Fourest and Venner are not traditional secularists as the PRG, they are more than that: they fight religion even in the private sphere. So, their articles are all the more biased.

Yes, of course, they are biased, they are as biased as some Catholic points of view on such or such things, everyone is biased, in that sens there is no problem with their point of view, it is just different than yours.

After that, Antonio feared for secularism and you pointed out that he didn't have to fear for secularism following the biased views of the cited people, because they are what you call some "laïcards". So, let's say they are rather interested in defending what you would call "laïcardisme", once again, their point of view is just different than yours but is legitimate to exist. Something you may not contest, maybe you just wanted to make a difference between our traditional secularism, and something you would call "laïcardisme".
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 ... 40  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.067 seconds with 11 queries.