N.J. to vote on abolishing death penalty
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  N.J. to vote on abolishing death penalty
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Author Topic: N.J. to vote on abolishing death penalty  (Read 3456 times)
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snowguy716
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« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2007, 12:51:34 PM »

As long as there are tests is the Mob, there will be prayers in school the death penalty in New Jersey.

When's the last time an actual mobster was executed? What opebo said applies greatly.

*sigh*  You both missed the joke.

Don't worry.. I got it.  And I laughed.  I certainly wouldn't wanna offend Mama and have to deal with them!
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Undisguised Sockpuppet
Straha
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« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2007, 12:52:18 PM »

If anything, this should be a vote of the people, not the legislature

Why is that, because then it'd have a better chance of not getting abolished? Tongue

No - I think if the people voted, it WOULD have a better chance of getting abolished - but it's still the people's right to choose something like this IMO - even if the people disagree with me.

What makes this issue different from any other?  The entire purpose we elect government representatives is to make decisions.  If every single big decision was put to the people, having a government would be rather pointless.

What Gabu said. Personally, I trust government over the people on social issues; people are much more likely to be swayed by mass hysteria (as we see, for example, in the violent calls for public vengeance in death penalty trials).

What do you mean by this? Do you favor a statist approach when it comes to social policies? If so why do you have a negative social score?
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Gabu
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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2007, 12:26:55 AM »

What do you mean by this? Do you favor a statist approach when it comes to social policies? If so why do you have a negative social score?

However corruptable and self-serving politicians might be, I certainly trust them over the vast masses in terms of making policy decisions, as the politicians at least have defined stances on the issues rather than just flailing wildly depending on whatever was the last thing that they heard on the subject.
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Verily
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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2007, 02:12:56 AM »

What do you mean by this? Do you favor a statist approach when it comes to social policies? If so why do you have a negative social score?

However corruptable and self-serving politicians might be, I certainly trust them over the vast masses in terms of making policy decisions, as the politicians at least have defined stances on the issues rather than just flailing wildly depending on whatever was the last thing that they heard on the subject.

Again, Gabu is articulating the point well. The people don't really have positions, they just charge wildly from one decision to the next, usually without any attempt to be logical or consistent. Moreover, the public is easily swayed by demagogues.

That is not to say that I place a great deal of trust in politicians, many of whom are the demagogues themselves. But I do think they are more consistent and reasonable than the average idiot.

Shoot me, I'm a Platonic.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2007, 01:11:44 AM »

TRENTON, Dec. 10 — The New Jersey Senate voted Monday to make the state the first in the country to repeal the death penalty since the United States Supreme Court allowed executions to resume in 1976 and established the nation’s current system of capital punishment.

Passage in the Senate was seen as the bill’s biggest obstacle, and in the end it was approved 21 to 16, receiving the bare minimum number of votes required.

Legislators on both sides of the debate expect the measure to pass easily on Thursday in the Assembly, where the Democrats enjoy a 50-to-30 majority, .

Gov. Jon S. Corzine, a staunch opponent of the death penalty, has repeatedly said he would sign a measure ending executions..

For those opposed to capital punishment, New Jersey’s repeal would represent a victory that has so far eluded them in the modern history of the death penalty.

Though legislatures across the country have tried to abolish capital punishment since 1976, none have succeeded. This year alone, the legislatures in Nebraska, Montana, Maryland and New Mexico have debated bills to repeal their death penalties, but each of those measures failed, often by a slim margin.

So far, opponents of the death penalty have succeeded only through court rulings, like a decision declaring New York’s capital punishment statute unconstitutional, or through moratoriums imposed by a governor, like in Illinois and Maryland.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/nyregion/11cnd-death.html

...

Well Done, New Jersey Wink
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BRTD
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« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2007, 01:15:44 AM »

Excellent for NJ.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2007, 01:17:22 AM »


Agreed.  Glad to see that New Jersey will be a pro-life state.
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Verily
Cuivienen
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« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2007, 01:24:40 AM »

I would like to take a moment to applaud my usually incompetent state legislature.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2007, 07:18:24 AM »

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minionofmidas
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« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2007, 11:04:16 AM »

"New Jersey is going to be a beacon on the hill."

First for everything I suppose.
Oh no we aren't the richest state in the nation and don't have the best education system.

The latter kind of follows from the former, and the former isn't exactly due to any sort of policy or action on the part of any political individual or group.
Actually, it's the result of all that highly effective corruption. Grin
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2007, 11:42:55 AM »

It's a sad day for NJ.  Although, I do agree w/ the guy who got the DP put back in NJ.  Having the DP gave victims' families a false sense of hope, since NJ normally didn't even get to actually executing anybody on death row.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2007, 11:50:47 AM »

Yeah, good work on getting rid of a punishment that New Jersey hasn't used, had no plans to use, and would likely never get around to using.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2007, 12:17:25 PM »

Generally a good decision, although I'm not sure if I would want to throw away the DP entirely (there might be one criminal or two every 20 or so years, hopefully more, that truely merits the DP).

But given the choice of the DP as it currently stands, or no death penalty at all...the latter is preferable.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2007, 12:37:31 PM »

Generally a good decision, although I'm not sure if I would want to throw away the DP entirely (there might be one criminal or two every 20 or so years, hopefully more, that truely merits the DP).
Hopefully? You hope for dreadful crimes?

Oh yes. You're studying law. That explains it I guess. Tongue
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Verily
Cuivienen
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« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2007, 12:44:02 PM »

It's a sad day for NJ.  Although, I do agree w/ the guy who got the DP put back in NJ.  Having the DP gave victims' families a false sense of hope, since NJ normally didn't even get to actually executing anybody on death row.

Hope? Hope that they get their sick fantasies of vengeance fulfilled? I'd rather not give them that hope.
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Јas
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« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2007, 01:13:11 PM »

It's a sad day for NJ.  Although, I do agree w/ the guy who got the DP put back in NJ.  Having the DP gave victims' families a false sense of hope vengeance, since NJ normally didn't even get to actually executing anybody on death row.

I suggest the above edit for your post.
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BRTD
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« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2007, 01:41:27 PM »

New Jersey is not voting on this measure, its disgraceful government is.  This is wrong, let us decide for ourselves.

You know what a legislature's for, right? Unless you want every single bill to be voted on in a referendum. Besides as was pointed out:

Yeah, good work on getting rid of a punishment that New Jersey hasn't used, had no plans to use, and would likely never get around to using.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2007, 01:54:00 PM »

Generally a good decision, although I'm not sure if I would want to throw away the DP entirely (there might be one criminal or two every 20 or so years, hopefully more, that truely merits the DP).
Hopefully? You hope for dreadful crimes?

Oh yes. You're studying law. That explains it I guess. Tongue



Bah lewis, grammar stickler...the hopefully more referred to the period...not the quantity of crimes.

I hate you.
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Robespierre's Jaw
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« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2007, 05:20:20 PM »

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Tender Branson
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« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2007, 01:14:26 AM »

TRENTON — The New Jersey General Assembly approved a bill eliminating capital punishment on Thursday, clearing the way for Gov. Jon S. Corzine to sign the measure as early as Monday.

Mr. Corzine said he would act quickly. “It will be very, very prompt,” he said at a news conference on Thursday. “I’m sure it will be within the next week.”

Once he signs the bill, New Jersey will become the first state in the modern era of capital punishment to repeal the death penalty.

The voting did not break down exclusively along party lines, however. Three Republicans joined 41 Democrats in the Assembly to pass the bill, 44 to 36. Surprisingly, nine Democrats voted against the measure. On Monday in the Senate, 4 Republicans joined 17 Democrats to muster just enough support to get the 21 votes needed to pass a bill.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/14/nyregion/14death.html
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BRTD
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« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2007, 02:20:30 AM »

This excellent act of Freedom Fighting has earned Corzine a place in my sig for now.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2007, 02:44:12 AM »

TRENTON — The New Jersey General Assembly approved a bill eliminating capital punishment on Thursday, clearing the way for Gov. Jon S. Corzine to sign the measure as early as Monday.

Mr. Corzine said he would act quickly. “It will be very, very prompt,” he said at a news conference on Thursday. “I’m sure it will be within the next week.”

Once he signs the bill, New Jersey will become the first state in the modern era of capital punishment to repeal the death penalty.

The voting did not break down exclusively along party lines, however. Three Republicans joined 41 Democrats in the Assembly to pass the bill, 44 to 36. Surprisingly, nine Democrats voted against the measure. On Monday in the Senate, 4 Republicans joined 17 Democrats to muster just enough support to get the 21 votes needed to pass a bill.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/14/nyregion/14death.html

"Surprisingly."  Ha, ha, ha.  How anyone could be surprised by Greenstein (voting in sync with Baroni), Van Drew, Panter, or Bodine voting "no" is beyond me.

I do love our little tally board.



I think Diegnan is pro-life, no?
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Cubby
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« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2007, 02:59:18 AM »

This is wonderful news!!  Along with the pending Supreme Court Case, this country is finally moving in the right direction, after years of panic about "victim's rights". Verily is correct, the victim's relatives only want vengeance, they shouldn't have the power of government condoning them.

I can only hope that Connecticut attempts the same bill. It might pass both houses of the State Assembly. But our current death penalty loving governor would veto it, to improve her conservative credentials. Some moderate she is.
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HardRCafé
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« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2007, 04:13:13 AM »

This is wonderful news!!  Along with the pending Supreme Court Case, this country is finally moving in the right direction,

This country?  Since when is New Jersey a bellwether?
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Gabu
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« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2007, 04:35:57 AM »
« Edited: December 14, 2007, 04:38:45 AM by Gabu »

New Jersey is not voting on this measure, its disgraceful government is.  This is wrong, let us decide for ourselves.

Why is it that every single time legislatures make a decision people disagree with, people yell "this should be a referendum!"?  It makes no sense.  There is no reason why this should be a referendum.  The government is there to make decisions just like these.  If every single important decision is put to the people as a referendum, we might as well just do away with government.
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