Is it wrong for atheists to celebrate Christmas?

[KEmperor]

african tribal "religions" with such "gems" as female circumcism and the amish.

I never knew that about the Amish.

The amish are not an african tribal religion.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to see some solid proof about this claim of yours.

[Gabu]

african tribal "religions" with such "gems" as female circumcism and the amish.

I never knew that about the Amish.

The amish are not an african tribal religion.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to see some solid proof about this claim of yours.

Especially given how low-tech their lives are; how could they not be an African tribe?

[memphis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40qTXlNJj9s

[Јas]

Define "celebrate".
(Though it could be difficult to get a definition where I'll answer yes.)

Partake in the gift giving really.  Some radical God-fearing Catholics feel it's wrong for non-believers to get gifts.

Well with that definition, absolutely not.
Nor do I think I could understand someone who felt that co-ordinated gift giving was in some way wrong.

[Inverted Things]

Christmas? Yes, it is wrong for Atheists to celebrate Christmas
However, it is not work for Atheists to partake in the mockery sham of Christmas in America

Christmas isn't supposed to be the big, impressive holiday. It celebrates the birth of some guy. Any idiot can be born, so why celebrate? Easter is supposed to be the big, impressive one; it celebrates a resurrection, and that's the impressive feat.

[Wakie]

Is it wrong for atheists to celebrate Christmas with their friends and families, and partake in the secularist rituals?

They can celebrate but they shouldn't get time off of work.

Yes we should.

Why should you get Christmas off but not the holidays of other religions?

[Wakie]

They can celebrate but they shouldn't get time off of work.

Wow, I didn't know you were such a bigot.

How is this being a bigot?  I think everyone should get off for their own religious holidays.  Atheists, having no religion, should get those days off as "free floating".  They should be able to take them whenever they want.

[opebo]

It isn't objectively 'wrong' for atheists to go on a killing spree, much less celebrate a silly shopping holiday.

That said, I never celebrate it, and am ever so pleased to be living in a place where it can be totally ignored.

[John Dibble]

Is it wrong for atheists to celebrate Christmas with their friends and families, and partake in the secularist rituals?

They can celebrate but they shouldn't get time off of work.

Yes we should.

Why should you get Christmas off but not the holidays of other religions?

Maybe because pretty much everything is closed anyways and you wouldn't be able to get much of anything done? Hell, even Jews get it off, and they even get extra holidays for being Jewish! All we get is the standard package just like the Christians.

[Wakie]

Is it wrong for atheists to celebrate Christmas with their friends and families, and partake in the secularist rituals?

They can celebrate but they shouldn't get time off of work.

Yes we should.

Why should you get Christmas off but not the holidays of other religions?

Maybe because pretty much everything is closed anyways and you wouldn't be able to get much of anything done? Hell, even Jews get it off, and they even get extra holidays for being Jewish! All we get is the standard package just like the Christians.

Again, I have a problem with that.  I think everyone, regardless of religion, should get a certain # of days off.  Most people will choose to burn those on religious holidays.  I think it is ridiculous that a Hindu should be forced to observe a Christian holiday but doesn't get off for a Hindu feast.

[John Dibble]

Is it wrong for atheists to celebrate Christmas with their friends and families, and partake in the secularist rituals?

They can celebrate but they shouldn't get time off of work.

Yes we should.

Why should you get Christmas off but not the holidays of other religions?

Maybe because pretty much everything is closed anyways and you wouldn't be able to get much of anything done? Hell, even Jews get it off, and they even get extra holidays for being Jewish! All we get is the standard package just like the Christians.

Again, I have a problem with that.  I think everyone, regardless of religion, should get a certain # of days off.  Most people will choose to burn those on religious holidays.  I think it is ridiculous that a Hindu should be forced to observe a Christian holiday but doesn't get off for a Hindu feast.

Hey, just because he gets the day off doesn't mean he has to observe it. Jews don't observe Christmas even though they get it off - they go see a movie instead. Christians are a supermajority in this country, so it's pretty normal that Christian holidays are the standard holidays. I don't follow their religion, but I still get a day off - frankly I find that to be pretty sweet. Besides, modern Christmas has been largely secularized.

[Wakie]

Is it wrong for atheists to celebrate Christmas with their friends and families, and partake in the secularist rituals?

They can celebrate but they shouldn't get time off of work.

Yes we should.

Why should you get Christmas off but not the holidays of other religions?

Maybe because pretty much everything is closed anyways and you wouldn't be able to get much of anything done? Hell, even Jews get it off, and they even get extra holidays for being Jewish! All we get is the standard package just like the Christians.

Again, I have a problem with that.  I think everyone, regardless of religion, should get a certain # of days off.  Most people will choose to burn those on religious holidays.  I think it is ridiculous that a Hindu should be forced to observe a Christian holiday but doesn't get off for a Hindu feast.

Hey, just because he gets the day off doesn't mean he has to observe it. Jews don't observe Christmas even though they get it off - they go see a movie instead. Christians are a supermajority in this country, so it's pretty normal that Christian holidays are the standard holidays. I don't follow their religion, but I still get a day off - frankly I find that to be pretty sweet. Besides, modern Christmas has been largely secularized.

And therein is the problem.

From a Christian perspective, Christmas gets secularized because EVERYONE gets a day or 2 off.  This detracts from the religious significance of the event.

From a non-Christian (but other religion) perspective, it is bogus that they have to take a day off (either from vacation or without pay) to celebrate their own religions whereas Christians do not.

From an atheist perspective, I feel you should get to pick and choose WHEN you want to take your time off, not have it forced on you.  If you want to take December 25th off then fine.  If you want to take July 17th off instead (and maybe take a longer Summer holiday) then you should be able to do that.

In America religion and government should be independent of each other.

[John Dibble]

From a Christian perspective, Christmas gets secularized because EVERYONE gets a day or 2 off.  This detracts from the religious significance of the event.

Err, no. Easter is secularized nowadays as well, but nobody really gets it off as a holiday since it occurs on a Sunday. The reason Christmas is secularized is because businesses took advantage of it as a time to sell their goods in greater quantities, and the Christians allowed it to happen by buying into it. Same with Easter - great chance to sell candy, so companies seized on it. That non-Christians often get Christmas off has nothing at all to do with it being secularized.

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Many companies and government jobs allow them to take the paid time off as a religious holiday and not count it as vacation time as far as I know.

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First off, outside of government jobs the government doesn't give Christmas off to everyone - it's a decision by private companies for most people.

Frankly for practical reasons giving non-Christians the same holiday off is practical. Could you run the post office and deliver all the mail on Christmas day when most of your postal workers aren't working? Nope. Can you run a factory efffectively with only 20% or less of your workers? Not likely. The same applies to most other industries.

I'm an agnostic and I feel it would be a pain in the ass to have to come into work when most of my coworkers weren't there making it difficult to get any meaningful work done, so from my own atheist perspective it's perfectly rational for me to get the day off. If enough people take the day off that it makes it more trouble than it's worth to make the rest work, why not just give everyone the day off?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Celebrate the Solstice! 

I know several pagans who celebrate Christmas and the Solstice.  One celebrates the birth of Christ, because though she is not a Christian, she thinks Jesus was probably the greatest man ever to walk the earth.

I don't think people from more southern climes really realize the point of celebrating the solstice though...

I met a girl once who considered herself a syncretic Christian/pagan (if you consider that possible). Christmas would be the ultimate holiday for her.

[Wakie]

Dibs, a whole bunch to respond to so I'll make it brief.

Easter isn't as secularized as Christmas.  The reason being it doesn't dove-tail with New Year's and it doesn't result in people getting out of work.

In my experience as a consultant working with a variety of organizations I have found that most will allow workers to take off for a religious observance but require it come out of the vacation or sick time bucket.  Your personal experience may be different, but I would counter that argument by saying that I think I've probably worked with more organizations than you (I'm older than you and I work as a consultant so I see several organizations a year).

Lastly, while I agree that it is harder to be productive when everyone is out, there are always tasks which can be accomplished during said downtime.  In fact, there are some tasks which MUST be accomplished during such periods.

All I'm arguing for is increased individual freedoms.  I want people to have the freedom to choose when to take off.  I also don't want companies to have to pay extra to get people to work during a period of time that they would be ok working any way.