Antillian Constitutional Convention
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Author Topic: Antillian Constitutional Convention  (Read 29345 times)
Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #125 on: December 10, 2007, 02:47:06 PM »

If you wish to propose someone else, then do it. I wanted this to move to vote, because I want to get things done, sir. Endless bickering and disorder does not accomplish anything. The position of Chairman had already been created with Mr. Jones, sir.

To suggest what I did by proposing a vote as dishonest is highly insulting to me, sir. I frankly, don't care who is Chairman, as long as we have some order. We can move about for a Vice-Chair nomination if you so wish.

I did not suggest that a movement to vote was dishonest, I stated it was inadvertantly unethical. Nor sir do I believe it to have been intentional. I agree with the need to keep the process in motion, but not at the expense of proper consultation and debate. I say this too regarding my own unexpected nomination as vice-chair before that issue has been discussed. We have to establish a timescale as to how long a period time a motion can remain on the floor before deliberation, and how long voting is open before the motion is carried or struck down. I don't believe I am being a 'blocker' by suggesting we establish these basic rules.

I would also suggest to the next Chair that as a Convention we should be able to decide upon multiple issues over a set time period instead of proceeding in such a linear fashion.

Your point is well taken, Mr. Denoix.

I just wanted to get some leadership so that discussions wouldn't break down. I would support you for position as Vice Chair. Such rules were never established. Maybe once these positions are filled, we can come to agreement as a body on reasonable time lengths. The religious debate from early on took far too much time before being brought to vote. Trivial matters such as that aren't warranted for something like a week of debate. We have other issues before the floor, and a chair was desperately required. That is why I did what I did.

I would say something like 24 hours of debate. 24 hours to vote, and no more than five issues on the floor at one time. After that, debate becomes extremely muddled. We should establish three positions. Chairman (which is already established but not filled), Vice-Chair, which was proposed, and Secretary which would be the office in charge of record keeping, and hopefully wiki-ing this.

The Chairman's job should merely be to put votes before the floor and keep track of debate and call for the vote.

The Vice-Chair should basically follow along the lines of your earlier suggestion.

The Secretary is like any other body member, except they keep the records of party memberships, etc. and to establish the Wiki.
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afleitch
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« Reply #126 on: December 11, 2007, 06:37:25 AM »

Thank you for an exceptional reply that have adressed my concerns. I change my vote to 'Aye' should the Convention accept it.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #127 on: December 11, 2007, 01:06:07 PM »

Egbert Dudley (ALP-New Ulster)

You're quite welcome, Mr. Denoix. There's no precedence established for that, so hopefully the rest of the convention won't mind if it is changed. I hope we can address voting changes as well. I would like to ask someone to come up with some procedural solution, and we can table it along with Mr. Hordern's and Mr. Tudor's proposals.

It's been about twenty four hours since both vote on Chairman began and your nomination for Vice-Chair.

I close the vote on Chairman, Egbert Dudley has been elected Chairman of Antillian Convention 7-2.

I open the vote on Alexander Denoix for Vice-Chairman. You have 24 hours to vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain. You may change your vote but only within that period.

*Gavel Bang*
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #128 on: December 11, 2007, 03:49:44 PM »

Aye
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« Reply #129 on: December 11, 2007, 04:34:40 PM »

aye
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #130 on: December 11, 2007, 06:32:14 PM »

Emphatic Aye.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #131 on: December 11, 2007, 08:04:09 PM »

Nay; the way he argues, this convention might as well become a French-speaking anarchy!
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The Man From G.O.P.
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« Reply #132 on: December 11, 2007, 08:11:07 PM »

Aye
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HappyWarrior
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« Reply #133 on: December 11, 2007, 10:29:06 PM »

Aye
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afleitch
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« Reply #134 on: December 12, 2007, 08:36:27 AM »

Abstain. I won't vote to confirm myself
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #135 on: December 12, 2007, 11:00:35 AM »

Ayye
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #136 on: December 12, 2007, 11:05:37 AM »

7 aye, 1 nay, 1 abstain
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #137 on: December 12, 2007, 02:35:06 PM »

Nay; the way he argues, this convention might as well become a French-speaking anarchy!

Douglas Hordern, speaking sotto voce to himself:
Why the redundant mention of both French-speaking and anarchy?
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #138 on: December 12, 2007, 03:16:31 PM »

Convention Chair Egbert Dudley (ALP-New Ulster)


It has been more than 24 hours. Mr. Denoix is confirmed as Vice-Chair of Antillian Constitutional Convention with a vote of 7-1-1.

*Gavel Bang*

The Chair will accept nominations for Secretary.


Also before the body, we will begin debate on two motions. The first made by Mr. Hordern:

If we adopt an MMP system, we need to do one of the following:
1. Reduce the number of provincial MP's to 1.
2. Apportion the provincial MP's by population instead of a flat rate.
3. Increase the size of Parliment to more than 50 MP's.


The next motion was made by Mr. Tudor:

Our Prime Minister (whenever they come to be) be held accountable, this should be achieved by holding a weekly session (feel free to amend for time and day) of taking questions from the leader of the determined opposition, as well as members of Parliament at large, the neutral speaker will have the increased responsibility of not only keeping the questions and the body in order, but also choosing at random who shall address the PM outside of the Leader of the Opposition (and other significant parties)

To set a base set of numbers to work with:

The Question Time (Proposed name: Prime Minister's Questions) shall be held once a week (OOC: probably over a few days for forum's sake) for 3 days, Tue-Thu, or Fri-Sun, this is to be decided by the PM due to the fact his participation is the most crucial.

The QT will include a minimum 5 questions asked by the Leader of the Opposition, to be responded in turn by the PM, leaving the PM with the final word.

The Speaker may extend this exchange based on judgement of the questions remaining to be asked and time limits.

The Speaker will halt any innapropriate questions (OOC: but not delete them from view) and keep the house commentary to a minimum.


Debate on both of these motions will last 24 hours before they are brought to a vote.

*Gavel Bang*
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #139 on: December 12, 2007, 04:40:19 PM »

Douglas Hordern (SCP-Hesperia)

Of the three methods I listed for making an MMP system viable, #1 and #2 are mutually exclusive, and #3 is needed only if neither of the other two are adopted.  I request that the vote therefore held only on proposal #1 at this time, with the other two to be considered only if the first fails to gain approval.

As to question time, given the pace at which we are holding our current deliberations, I am not sanguine at the prospect of weekly questions.  I favor biweekly questions and would not oppose triweekly or monthly.

I also do not favor granting the Leader of the Loyal Opposition such a large number of questions as it would likely deny backbenchers of both the Government and the Loyal Opposition the chance to speak.  The proposal also seems to implicitly presume that we would have no members who might seek to sit crossbench and consider each Government proposal on the merits rather than being whipped into opposing or supporting the bills presented to the Parliment, but that fault can be dealt with at another time.
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afleitch
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« Reply #140 on: December 12, 2007, 05:04:44 PM »

I also do not favor granting the Leader of the Loyal Opposition such a large number of questions as it would likely deny backbenchers of both the Government and the Loyal Opposition the chance to speak.  The proposal also seems to implicitly presume that we would have no members who might seek to sit crossbench and consider each Government proposal on the merits rather than being whipped into opposing or supporting the bills presented to the Parliment, but that fault can be dealt with at another time.

PMQ's do serve a very non-legislative purpose in many parliamentary democracies. They spur debate and set the agenda in the often fickle press. I see no harm in allowing for this spectacle for both the public amusment and to the benefit of the democratic process in the early days of it's existance. I would however suggest a reduction in questions asked to the PM or the leader of the assembly to around 2 or 3 on a fortnightly basis.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #141 on: December 12, 2007, 06:18:02 PM »

There should no Provincial M.P's. The idea is dreadful and must die, die, die!
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The Man From G.O.P.
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« Reply #142 on: December 12, 2007, 06:49:57 PM »

I am in favour of Vice Chair Denoix's stance on Question time, and also do not favour provincial MPs.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #143 on: December 12, 2007, 07:01:37 PM »

I approve a reduction in provincial MPs to one, and support Mr. Hordern's motion on Questio  Time.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #144 on: December 12, 2007, 11:14:12 PM »

I believe that the number of provincial MPs must be distributed to the provinces equally.  Equal representation for equal provinces!

I agree with Mr. Hornden's proposal for the Prime Minister's Questions.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #145 on: December 13, 2007, 06:53:37 AM »

Gross malapportionment is gerrymandering. I will not stand for such an abuse of democracy.
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Platypus
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« Reply #146 on: December 13, 2007, 07:21:25 AM »

Vijay bPabhusanjil, SDP-Reginia

I am of the opinion that whilst each province must be assured of at least one MP, parliamentary seats must be apportioned on the basis of population. That said, if one province were to narrowly miss a second, third or even fourth quota, parliament should have the ability to create an extra seat in any province if that province was within 30% of making a second quota, 15% of making a third quota, and 5% of making any later quotas. It would not, however, be automatic.

On the subject of PMQ's, I feel that all members of parliament have not only the right but also the responsibility to represent their electors in our parliament, not only the leader of the opposition, nor only those whom are aligned against the government in parties or even coalitions. I do, however, support a gaurantee that the leader of the opposition shall be granted one question minimum in each question time.
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afleitch
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« Reply #147 on: December 13, 2007, 02:22:48 PM »

Just to inform the Convention I will be absent from Friday to Wednesday. I am in Belgium to discuss linguistics and the political process.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #148 on: December 13, 2007, 04:35:07 PM »

Convention Chairman Egbert Dudley (ALP-New Ulster)

So noted, Mr. Denoix.

It has been more than 24 hours. I hereby open vote on Mr. Hordern's and Mr. Tudor's propositions. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain. Vote closes 24 hours from now.

*Gavel Bang*
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« Reply #149 on: December 13, 2007, 04:45:31 PM »

What is the exact text/motion we are voting on, Honorable Speaker?
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