Which of the following are justifiable?
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  Which of the following are justifiable?
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Author Topic: Which of the following are justifiable?  (Read 1615 times)
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BRTD
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« on: November 20, 2007, 10:40:32 PM »

Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $10,000 from you.
Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $5 from you.
Killing someone to prevent them from embezzling millions of dollars and almost certainly will get away with it due to their connections.
Killing someone to prevent them from raping you.
Killing someone to prevent them from raping someone else.
Stealing thousands of dollars from a crime boss while pretending to set up a sting for him with law enforcement against him, then tricking law enforcement into killing him so you can keep the money with no danger. (Yeah, I got this from a movie)
Illegally accepting a large bribe from a crime boss to rig a match they have bet money on, then taking the money and fleeing, thus f**king over the crime boss (also taken from a movie, which one is pretty obvious)
Killing roughly a dozen people, all criminals or extremely corrupt police, in order to rescue one kidnapped girl (also from a movie)
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John Dibble
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2007, 10:53:51 PM »

I'll judge this as justifiable from an ethical standpoint, as you can justify a lot of things and still be unethical.

Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $10,000 from you. - Physical theft entails you may be in danger from the thief, so yes.
Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $5 from you. - see above, though if it's a pickpocket or something where there's no assault involved I'd say no

Killing someone to prevent them from embezzling millions of dollars and almost certainly will get away with it due to their connections. - No, as nobody will likely be physically harmed. Report your evidence to both the authorities and the media. This will decrease their chances of getting away with it, and you don't go to jail.

Killing someone to prevent them from raping you. - no doubt about it
Killing someone to prevent them from raping someone else. - see above

Stealing thousands of dollars from a crime boss while pretending to set up a sting for him with law enforcement against him, then tricking law enforcement into killing him so you can keep the money with no danger. (Yeah, I got this from a movie) - It's theft, so no. The money you'd be stealing is likely stolen money in the first place.

Illegally accepting a large bribe from a crime boss to rig a match they have bet money on, then taking the money and fleeing, thus f**king over the crime boss (also taken from a movie, which one is pretty obvious) - You shouldn't take the money in the first place, but if you do refusing to rig the match is one of the more ethical paths you might take.

Killing roughly a dozen people, all criminals or extremely corrupt police, in order to rescue one kidnapped girl (also from a movie) - this is defense of an innocent against imminent danger, so yes
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BRTD
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2007, 10:59:06 PM »

Stealing thousands of dollars from a crime boss while pretending to set up a sting for him with law enforcement against him, then tricking law enforcement into killing him so you can keep the money with no danger. (Yeah, I got this from a movie) - It's theft, so no. The money you'd be stealing is likely stolen money in the first place.

Well no, in the movie it was money made through illegal arms trafficking.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2007, 11:02:54 PM »

Stealing thousands of dollars from a crime boss while pretending to set up a sting for him with law enforcement against him, then tricking law enforcement into killing him so you can keep the money with no danger. (Yeah, I got this from a movie) - It's theft, so no. The money you'd be stealing is likely stolen money in the first place.

Well no, in the movie it was money made through illegal arms trafficking.

Well, it's still dirty money. Might be alright if you gave it to charity or something, but it's still illegal to take the money for yourself.
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opebo
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« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2007, 04:58:16 AM »

Well of course there is no 'objective morality', so there is no need to 'justify' your actions.  If you like it, do it.  On the otherh and society will exacts its punishments, so a better question is 'what can you convince society is ok?'

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Haha, 'killing roughly'!  Much worse than a gentle killing.
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BRTD
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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2007, 07:17:52 PM »

Haha, 'killing roughly'!  Much worse than a gentle killing.

Well I meant roughly in terms of the number, but the other definition applies as well to the movie, which consists of things like cutting off three fingers from a corrupt cop to extract information, then coarsening the wound with a cigarette lighter before shooting him.
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DownWithTheLeft
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« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2007, 07:55:12 PM »

YES:
Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $10,000 from you.
Killing someone to prevent them from embezzling millions of dollars and almost certainly will get away with it due to their connections.
Killing someone to prevent them from raping you.
Killing someone to prevent them from raping someone else.
Killing roughly a dozen people, all criminals or extremely corrupt police, in order to rescue one kidnapped girl (also from a movie)

NO:
Stealing thousands of dollars from a crime boss while pretending to set up a sting for him with law enforcement against him, then tricking law enforcement into killing him so you can keep the money with no danger. (Yeah, I got this from a movie)
Illegally accepting a large bribe from a crime boss to rig a match they have bet money on, then taking the money and fleeing, thus f**king over the crime boss (also taken from a movie, which one is pretty obvious)

DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES:
Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $5 from you.




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dead0man
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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2007, 12:51:13 AM »

Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $10,000 from you.Always yes(at least until inflation makes 10k worth the same as $5 today
Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $5 from you.Depends on how physical he was
Killing someone to prevent them from embezzling millions of dollars and almost certainly will get away with it due to their connections.Lots of variables could make me go one way or the other on this one.  Is it Dr Evil stealing millions from an orphanage?  Or is it just random, shady, rich dude stealing millions from some other random rich dude?
Killing someone to prevent them from raping you.umm yeah?
Killing someone to prevent them from raping someone else.you'd have an obligation to make the person stop...if killing them was the only option, then yeah
Stealing thousands of dollars from a crime boss while pretending to set up a sting for him with law enforcement against him, then tricking law enforcement into killing him so you can keep the money with no danger. (Yeah, I got this from a movie)depends on how bad the boss was and how much future "bad" you could prevent by making him dead
Illegally accepting a large bribe from a crime boss to rig a match they have bet money on, then taking the money and fleeing, thus f**king over the crime boss (also taken from a movie, which one is pretty obvious)I don't have a problem with stealing money from people that acquired that money through illegal means
Killing roughly a dozen people, all criminals or extremely corrupt police, in order to rescue one kidnapped girl (also from a movie)of course...who would think otherwise?  Killing known "bad guys" to save an innocent?  Can you get more justified than that?
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Friz
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« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2007, 04:22:28 PM »

Justifiable:
Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $10,000 from you.
Killing someone to prevent them from raping you.
Killing someone to prevent them from raping someone else.
Stealing thousands of dollars from a crime boss while pretending to set up a sting for him with law enforcement against him, then tricking law enforcement into killing him so you can keep the money with no danger.
Killing roughly a dozen people, all criminals or extremely corrupt police, in order to rescue one kidnapped girl (also from a movie)
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NDN
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« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2007, 04:27:57 PM »

They're all potentially morally justifiable. Legally is another story.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2007, 04:29:55 PM »

Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $10,000 from you.
Good lord, no. (Side note: It's astonishingly hard to think up a scenario in which doing so is both possible and necessary [to prevent the theft], anyways.)
Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $5 from you.
No more than the one above.
Killing someone to prevent them from embezzling millions of dollars and almost certainly will get away with it due to their connections.
Eh... I doubt killing them would do much good here either. Unjustified but more understandable.
Killing someone to prevent them from raping you.
Killing someone to prevent them from raping someone else.
Again, unjustified but (in the unlikely but conceivable situation that it is the only alternative) understandable.
Stealing thousands of dollars from a crime boss while pretending to set up a sting for him with law enforcement against him, then tricking law enforcement into killing him so you can keep the money with no danger. (Yeah, I got this from a movie)
Impossible to do with any accuracy. And not of course justifiable.
Illegally accepting a large bribe from a crime boss to rig a match they have bet money on, then taking the money and fleeing, thus f**king over the crime boss (also taken from a movie, which one is pretty obvious)
Perfectly acceptable behavior.
Killing roughly a dozen people, all criminals or extremely corrupt police, in order to rescue one kidnapped girl (also from a movie)
...and it's pretty obvious which one... Not justified, btw.
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BRTD
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2007, 04:47:05 PM »

Stealing thousands of dollars from a crime boss while pretending to set up a sting for him with law enforcement against him, then tricking law enforcement into killing him so you can keep the money with no danger. (Yeah, I got this from a movie)
Impossible to do with any accuracy. And not of course justifiable.

I thought you would've seen that movie. Of course things don't work like that in real life, but still.

Killing roughly a dozen people, all criminals or extremely corrupt police, in order to rescue one kidnapped girl (also from a movie)
...and it's pretty obvious which one... Not justified, btw.

Did you get it? Are you thinking of Denzel Washington?
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snowguy716
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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2007, 06:48:50 PM »

The only time I believe killing somebody would be justifiable is if you are acting in self defense because they are about to kill you.  Even then, it is immoral, but I think it is justified.

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NDN
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« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2007, 09:24:26 PM »

The only time I believe killing somebody would be justifiable is if you are acting in self defense because they are about to kill you.  Even then, it is immoral, but I think it is justified.


How can something be immoral if it's justified?
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Frodo
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« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2007, 09:48:27 PM »

Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $10,000 from you. Yes

Killing someone to prevent them from physically stealing $5 from you. Yes

Killing someone to prevent them from embezzling millions of dollars and almost certainly will get away with it due to their connections. Yes

Killing someone to prevent them from raping you. Yes

Killing someone to prevent them from raping someone else. Yes

Stealing thousands of dollars from a crime boss while pretending to set up a sting for him with law enforcement against him, then tricking law enforcement into killing him so you can keep the money with no danger. (Yeah, I got this from a movie) No

Illegally accepting a large bribe from a crime boss to rig a match they have bet money on, then taking the money and fleeing, thus f**king over the crime boss (also taken from a movie, which one is pretty obvious) No

Killing roughly a dozen people, all criminals or extremely corrupt police, in order to rescue one kidnapped girl (also from a movie) Yes
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snowguy716
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« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2007, 11:28:53 PM »

The only time I believe killing somebody would be justifiable is if you are acting in self defense because they are about to kill you.  Even then, it is immoral, but I think it is justified.


How can something be immoral if it's justified?

Killing somebody is never moral.

In a situation where it truly comes down to "kill or be killed", it can be justified to kill the other person in order to save your own life.  It still doesn't make the killing moral.
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NDN
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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2007, 11:40:10 PM »
« Edited: November 22, 2007, 11:51:08 PM by Day of the Dead »

The only time I believe killing somebody would be justifiable is if you are acting in self defense because they are about to kill you.  Even then, it is immoral, but I think it is justified.


How can something be immoral if it's justified?

Killing somebody is never moral.

In a situation where it truly comes down to "kill or be killed", it can be justified to kill the other person in order to save your own life.  It still doesn't make the killing moral.
If you say something is justified (in the context you're putting it), by definition that implies that it's morally acceptable. You can't say something is OK in one instance, then say it's never OK. It's either one or the other.
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