Which is more harmful?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Obvious choice for me.

[Dr. Cynic]

Depends on what you wanna damage. Liver or Lung?... I don't do either.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

They are both as bad as each other. I should know, both of my Grandfathers had medical conditions thanks to both.

[Lief 🗽]

Tobacco, clearly.

[Gabu]

If by "more harmful" you mean "more people have died from it", then tobacco is "more harmful", but overuse of both is linked to a large plethora of cancers and other undesirable conditions.  Neither are particularly healthy.

And if you include deaths by drunken driving in the category of "deaths due to alcohol", it's a real contest as to which has killed more people.

[Јas]

Depends how you define harmful.

If including only primary and direct effects, tobacco.
If you encompass secondary effects, alcohol.

[Ebowed]

False dichotomy because your question implies that since alcohol is less harmful than tobacco, alcohol would accordingly deserve less strict regulation.  In reality they are probably equally harmful, although drunk drivers, violent drunken fights, and alcoholics are all more annoying than someone smoking a cigarette.

[Friz]

It's one of my 'golden rules' to never put anything on fire in my mouth.

[Padfoot]

Well if alcohol were treated properly in this country it would be far safer.  lower the drinking age to 16 and up the driving age to 18 and I guarantee a major decrease in alcohol related deaths and teenage binge drinking.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Teenagers often need to drive. Go current driving age and 18 drinking age.

[dead0man]

Smoking kills mostly old people, alcohol kills some in every age demographic.  Nobody ever smokes to many cigs and beats his wife and kids.

[Ebowed]

Nobody ever smokes to many cigs and beats his wife and kids.

Exactly.  I don't understand this double standard with alcohol and cigarettes.

Alcohol can drastically alter your behavior, cigarettes won't.

[WalterMitty]

alcohol can be very dangerous, brtd.

it can destroy families.  ive seen it.

the only side of alcohol youve seen is kool aid and vodka at the big frat party.  and maybe knocking back a few amstel lights with your taco bell mexican pizza.

but there is a sinister side to it...

[DownWithTheLeft]

Tabacco, the effects to those around are worse because second-hand smoke occurs without abuse of the drug

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Tabacco, the effects to those around are worse because second-hand smoke occurs without abuse of the drug

Wow, I completely agree with DWTL.

[Ebowed]

Tabacco, the effects to those around are worse because second-hand smoke occurs without abuse of the drug

When was the last time someone smoked one too many cigarettes at a party and crashed their car because they were too uncoordinated?

[Gabu]

Tabacco, the effects to those around are worse because second-hand smoke occurs without abuse of the drug

Wow, I completely agree with DWTL.

So, ah, are you planning to ever respond to any of the people who have said things you don't agree with?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Tabacco, the effects to those around are worse because second-hand smoke occurs without abuse of the drug

Wow, I completely agree with DWTL.

So, ah, are you planning to ever respond to any of the people who have said things you don't agree with?

I've made my position on this pretty clear in the past. It's possible to responsibly use alcohol and not harm yourself or others. But you can't use tobacco without harming yourself, and it's very unlikely that you'll never harm others unless you basically live like a hermit.

[Alcon]

But you can't use tobacco without harming yourself

Wait, you drink to excess, and then use this argument?  So, alcohol is better than tobacco because it can be used in moderation, but not using it in moderation is awesome.  OK...

Also, you "can't use tobacco without harming yourself" in the same way that you can't eat a donut without harming yourself.  No use is good, but a cigar every once in a while (although not my idea of good - neither are donuts, though) isn't probably going to kill you.

By the way, a major recent study, IIRC, said even moderate drinking is not "good" for you.

"Which is more harmful at minimum use?" is a different question than "which is more harmful?"

[Gabu]

I've made my position on this pretty clear in the past. It's possible to responsibly use alcohol and not harm yourself or others. But you can't use tobacco without harming yourself, and it's very unlikely that you'll never harm others unless you basically live like a hermit.

It's also possible to make world peace; all you need to do is not kill each other.

The likelihood of that happening is roughly equivalent to the likelihood of people suddenly all using alcohol responsibly.  Given that none of the harm directly linked to prior alcohol use would have occurred had the alcohol not been consumed, I don't think it's unfair to include it in the category of "harm caused by alcohol".

[DownWithTheLeft]

Tabacco, the effects to those around are worse because second-hand smoke occurs without abuse of the drug

When was the last time someone smoked one too many cigarettes at a party and crashed their car because they were too uncoordinated?

When was the last time someone had one too many cigarettes and gave their kid cancer with second hand smoke?  Let's not kid ourselves, tabacco breaks up families too, however, this is a not a let's leave and come back later, its a you're dead from smoking break up.  If you handle alcohol correctly it is not very harmful at all.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Tabacco, the effects to those around are worse because second-hand smoke occurs without abuse of the drug

When was the last time someone smoked one too many cigarettes at a party and crashed their car because they were too uncoordinated?

When was the last time someone had one too many cigarettes and gave their kid cancer with second hand smoke?  Let's not kid ourselves, tabacco breaks up families too, however, this is a not a let's leave and come back later, its a you're dead from smoking break up.  If you handle alcohol correctly it is not very harmful at all.

^^^^^

Sad when DWTL is the voice of reason.

[Alcon]

No response to my post, then, I see.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The difference is you CAN eat a donut once in awhile. You CAN have a drink once in awhile. You can't for cigarettes, because you'll eventually get addicted. Which is the only reason people smoke anyway, they smoked in high school because they actually thought it was cool (even though I remember that one was far more likely to get picked on FOR smoking rather than for NOT smoking) and got addicted as a result.

[Alcon]

The difference is you CAN eat a donut once in awhile. You CAN have a drink once in awhile. You can't for cigarettes, because you'll eventually get addicted. Which is the only reason people smoke anyway, they smoked in high school because they actually thought it was cool (even though I remember that one was far more likely to get picked on FOR smoking rather than for NOT smoking) and got addicted as a result.

You ignored my cigar example, and you still are being hypocritical, because you are arguing from moderation without practicing it.