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Author Topic: China General Discussion  (Read 7524 times)
Governor Varavour
Simfan34
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« Reply #150 on: September 28, 2014, 07:12:20 pm »
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50 people were killed in Xinjiang the other day- as per state news!
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« Reply #151 on: September 28, 2014, 08:52:55 pm »
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Normally, I don't credit the Epoch Times with much of anything (as I don't take Falun Gong very seriously), however this article seems to be somewhat interesting. The last bit about China's foreign policy seems like wishful thinking, however there is more danger to this Hong Kong situation than is just in Hong Kong.

The students protesters in Hong Kong are right to protest, as it is good to show that Hong Kongers do care about more than just economics. However, it is important that they do not back the CPC into a corner, and perhaps be aware of the larger issues at stake. I am not sure if Zhang Dejiang (No. 3 in the Standing Committee of the Politburo) is really looking for another 1989; I am not sure he needs it. The incident that comes to mind is actually 1986. At that time, Fang Lizhi returned from the U.S. intoxicated with Western values and started touring universities opening his big mouth. Student protests put Hu Yaobang into a corner, and that is how Li Peng's ascent to the top happened to start with. There are certainly people (most likely Jiang faction) who would benefit if enough trouble got stirred up in Hong Kong that it caused the anti-corruption drive to grind to a halt.
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« Reply #152 on: September 30, 2014, 03:33:32 pm »
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Jiang Zemin has made an appearance seated next to Xi Jinping at a concert. It is extremely rare for him to come out. He is supposed to be retired since 2004, but he still clearly not. Sitting to the other side of him was Zhang Dejiang, head of the National People's Congress with jurisdiction over the Hong Kong issue. Other members of the hardline Jiang faction were around, including Li Peng (who declared martial law as Premier in 1989) and Zeng Qinghong, a close Jiang ally and Politburo Standing Committee member during the Hu administration. Who was absent? Hu Jintao himself, as well as Wen Jiabao, plus reformist-leaning former Premier Zhu Rongji.

Meanwhile, the People's Daily published an opinion piece stating that, "In today's China, engaging in an election system of one-man-one-vote is bound to quickly lead to turmoil, unrest and even a situation of civil war." Which normally would not be much, except its author is the head of the Internal Affairs committee of the NPC, Li Shenming. And who is this Li Shenming? He 2011 he argued "for the continued relevance of the 'Stalinist model,' and sa[id] that the critical reason for the collapse of both the Soviet Communist Party and the Soviet Union was not the failure of Marxism or socialism, but the betrayal of these values and systems by Khrushchev and Gorbachev."
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« Reply #153 on: September 30, 2014, 04:37:55 pm »
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Jiang Zemin has made an appearance seated next to Xi Jinping at a concert. It is extremely rare for him to come out. He is supposed to be retired since 2004, but he still clearly not. Sitting to the other side of him was Zhang Dejiang, head of the National People's Congress with jurisdiction over the Hong Kong issue. Other members of the hardline Jiang faction were around, including Li Peng (who declared martial law as Premier in 1989) and Zeng Qinghong, a close Jiang ally and Politburo Standing Committee member during the Hu administration. Who was absent? Hu Jintao himself, as well as Wen Jiabao, plus reformist-leaning former Premier Zhu Rongji.

Meanwhile, the People's Daily published an opinion piece stating that, "In today's China, engaging in an election system of one-man-one-vote is bound to quickly lead to turmoil, unrest and even a situation of civil war." Which normally would not be much, except its author is the head of the Internal Affairs committee of the NPC, Li Shenming. And who is this Li Shenming? He 2011 he argued "for the continued relevance of the 'Stalinist model,' and sa[id] that the critical reason for the collapse of both the Soviet Communist Party and the Soviet Union was not the failure of Marxism or socialism, but the betrayal of these values and systems by Khrushchev and Gorbachev."
Interesting that Jiang has made an appearance with XI, considering a bunch of Jiang allies have been purged.
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« Reply #154 on: October 11, 2014, 10:25:23 pm »
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Xi Jinping sees himself as a 21st century emperor, it seems like:

Leader Taps Into Chinese Classics in Seeking to Cement Power

By CHRIS BUCKLEY
OCT. 11, 2014


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China’s modern leaders have often sought to justify their policies by bowing to their Communist forebears, and so has Mr. Xi. But he has reached much farther back than his predecessors into a rich trove of ancient statecraft for vindication and guidance. He portrays his policies as rooted in homegrown order and virtues that, by his estimate, go back 5,000 years.

In his campaign to discipline wayward and corrupt officials, Mr. Xi has invoked Mencius and other ancient thinkers, alongside Mao. Most often, he has embraced Confucius, the sage born around 551 B.C. who advocated a paternalistic hierarchy, to argue that the party should command obedience because it represents “core values” reaching back thousands of years.

“He who rules by virtue is like the North Star,” he said at a meeting of officials last year, quoting Confucius. “It maintains its place, and the multitude of stars pay homage.”

(...)Mr. Xi has also shown his familiarity with “Legalist” thinkers who more than 23 centuries ago argued that people should submit to clean, uncompromising order maintained by a strong ruler, much as Mr. Xi appears to see himself. He has quoted Han Fei, the most famous Legalist, whose hardheaded advice from the Warring States era made Machiavelli seem fainthearted. And at least twice as national leader, Mr. Xi has admiringly cited Shang Yang, a Legalist statesman whose harsh policies transformed the weak Qin kingdom into a feared empire.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 10:28:05 pm by Frodo »Logged

Governor Varavour
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« Reply #155 on: October 11, 2014, 10:30:32 pm »
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anvi
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« Reply #156 on: October 13, 2014, 11:32:07 am »
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That story about Xi Jinping quoting the classics in support of his policies is a good demonstration of how ideologically strange and contorted modern China's political leadership is with the culture's heritage.  Of course, it's not uncommon for leaders to superficially quote classics in support of their own agenda; that's done in every country.  Plus, the state subsidization of Confucian revivalism has been going on since the 80's.  But Xi's invocation of Legalists like Hanfeizi is a little chilling--Hanfei declared that in a "legalist" (fa jia) state, everyone should be subject to the law but the ruler himself.  It's also odd to laud both Legalist and Confucian principles given that they have virtually opposite attitudes towards resorting to law as a first solution to social problems.  The traditional political synthesis known as "inner Legalism and outer Confucianism" represented an inclination for rulers to socialize the common people with Confucian teachings but use harsh punishments inside the court to control mischievous ministers.  Of course, Xi may in a way be signaling to the more conservative Maoist actors in the leadership that he will be strict with Hong Kong by citing Legalists like Hanfei, since Mao himself was an overt admirer of Hanfei's political thought.  It's just that modern political and financial interests in China play fast and loose with their tradition, and that often results in lots of incoherent associations of tradition and modernity.

How surreal that play can get is very visible sometimes.  In the summer of 2010, I was invited to present a paper at a national and international conference of Daoism scholars in Zhengzhou.  The conference was not organized by an academic institution, but by a private entrepreneur who thought the promulgation of Daoist principles could be productive for business practices (Huh).  The conference was held on the top level of a shopping mall complex the guy owned, and adjacent to the conference site on that level was a practice shooting range for commercial hunters.  When we went inside the facility where the conference was held, the walls were pasted from one end to the other with CCP political slogans about the virtues of communism (Huh).  And up we went, one by one, to give our academic papers on various traditional Daoist texts, while our televised images were broadcast on big screens on the street in front of the building, so that everyone could see that this was where all the foreigners hung out in Zhengzhou.

I actually love to go to mainland China, but sometimes the place is just flippin' weird.  Xi Jinping walking around quoting Hanfeizi and Confucius in support of a supposedly coherent political agenda is just another example of that.
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« Reply #157 on: October 13, 2014, 06:15:19 pm »
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And up we went, one by one, to give our academic papers on various traditional Daoist texts, while our televised images were broadcast on big screens on the street in front of the building, so that everyone could see that this was where all the foreigners hung out in Zhengzhou.

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My November ballot:
Ervin(I) Gov.
Sellers(D) Lt. Gov.
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Diggs(D) Att. Gen.
Herbert(D) Comptroller Gen.
Spearman(R) Supt. of Education
DeFelice(American) Commissioner of Agriculture
Hutto(D) US Sen (full)
Scott(R) US Sen (special)
Geddings(Labor) US House SC-2
Quinn(R) SC House District 69
Yes: Amendment 1 (Gen. Assembly may allow and regulate charity raffles)
No: Amendment 2 (end election of the Adjutant General)
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« Reply #158 on: October 20, 2014, 12:22:15 pm »
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China’s Aircraft Carrier Trouble—Spewing Steam and Losing Power
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There’s no more of a conspicuous and potent symbol of China’s growing naval power than the aircraft carrier Liaoning.

But the 53,000-ton, 999-foot-long carrier could be dangerous to her crew and prone to engine failures. If so, that makes the vessel as much of a liability as an asset to Beijing.

<snip>

But on at least one occasion during recent sea trials, Liaoning appeared to suffer a steam explosion which temporarily knocked out the carrier’s electrical power system. The failure, reported by Chinese media site Sina.com, resulting from a leak in “the machine oven compartment to the water pipes.”

<snip>

Engine failures are not an unknown phenomenon aboard ex-Soviet carriers. The 40,000-ton displacement Indian carrier Vikramaditya—first a Soviet Kiev-class carrier commissioned in 1987 and sold in 2004—temporarily shut down at sea after a boiler overheated two years ago.

The 50,000-ton Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov also goes nowhere without a tug escort in case her engines break down while underway.

<snip>
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True Federalist
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« Reply #159 on: October 20, 2014, 05:44:06 pm »
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Well, you can't blame Soviet-era engines for the problem.  Possibly Soviet-era engineering, but not Soviet engines.  The Chinese bought her as a hulk without any engines aboard and finally installed engines in 2009.
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My November ballot:
Ervin(I) Gov.
Sellers(D) Lt. Gov.
Hammond(R) Sec. of State
Diggs(D) Att. Gen.
Herbert(D) Comptroller Gen.
Spearman(R) Supt. of Education
DeFelice(American) Commissioner of Agriculture
Hutto(D) US Sen (full)
Scott(R) US Sen (special)
Geddings(Labor) US House SC-2
Quinn(R) SC House District 69
Yes: Amendment 1 (Gen. Assembly may allow and regulate charity raffles)
No: Amendment 2 (end election of the Adjutant General)
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