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Author Topic: Australia General Discussion  (Read 249418 times)
morgieb
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #225 on: February 14, 2012, 10:10:52 PM »

This shows how bad Labor is in the sh**t. Basically economic growth has been way higher than most/all 1st world countries. Our taxes are lower than any 1st world countries bar the basket case we call the USA....we have the 2nd highest living standards in the world.....yet Labor are still behind up 8-10 points. Jesus wept.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #226 on: February 14, 2012, 10:14:08 PM »

Re economy: You could say the same about Major's Tories in '97.
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change08
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #227 on: February 14, 2012, 10:32:07 PM »

Re economy: You could say the same about Major's Tories in '97.

The Tories presided over two recessions and services had been ravaged and neglected. That's the stuff the electorate notices, but let's stay on topic.

Julia's embarrassing, but hardly John Major embarrassing.
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MasterSanders
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« Reply #228 on: February 14, 2012, 11:06:14 PM »

What does Laborious do now? Does Gillard run out the clock until the next federal election, or will she be eased out by fellow ALP MP's?
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Smid
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« Reply #229 on: February 14, 2012, 11:31:52 PM »

the independents show no sign of moving.

Oakeshott has re-iterated his warning that his deal was with the Prime Minister, not the Labor Government.

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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #230 on: February 15, 2012, 12:39:06 AM »

What does Laborious do now? Does Gillard run out the clock until the next federal election, or will she be eased out by fellow ALP MP's?

That's the question... there are 3 questions the ALP needs to answer

1. Is this recoverable? regardless of who is leading...

2. Is our hatred of Rudd able to be put aside to manage our disappointment in Gillard?

3. Is there a credible alternative to either Rudd or Gillard?

I think the answers are probably...

1. It is, but this needs to be addressed quickly, or it will become terminal... it's very close

2. I would say Gillard has at least half of the caucus now, Rudd has probably 20% and 30% don't want Gillard, but equally don't want Rudd.

3. There are plausible options... but many of them are not palatable...

My feeling is that a challenge will come, it's in the ALP's interest to not have this instability carry-on into the post-Budget period (mid-May onwards).
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #231 on: February 15, 2012, 02:34:24 AM »

Bringing back Rudd isn't seriously being considered, is it?
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morgieb
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #232 on: February 15, 2012, 06:39:55 AM »

What does Laborious do now? Does Gillard run out the clock until the next federal election, or will she be eased out by fellow ALP MP's?
Not sure. What I think will happen....

1. Rudd challenges Gillard.
2. Gillard manages to swat him by because he's hated by the Labor Caucus, but she is weakened in the process.
3. Gillard still doesn't get a surge in the polls.
4. Labor eventually realises that Gillard can't win the next election.
5. They move towards a compromise candidate, probably Swan or Smith.
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morgieb
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #233 on: February 15, 2012, 06:41:15 AM »
« Edited: February 15, 2012, 06:49:49 AM by morgieb »

Re economy: You could say the same about Major's Tories in '97.
The Tories had also been in power for 18 years, whereas Labor's only been in power for 4.

Besides, we've never had any "Black Tuesday" moments.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #234 on: February 15, 2012, 07:02:54 AM »

What does Laborious do now? Does Gillard run out the clock until the next federal election, or will she be eased out by fellow ALP MP's?
Not sure. What I think will happen....

1. Rudd challenges Gillard.
2. Gillard manages to swat him by because he's hated by the Labor Caucus, but she is weakened in the process.
3. Gillard still doesn't get a surge in the polls.
4. Labor eventually realises that Gillard can't win the next election.
5. They move towards a compromise candidate, probably Swan or Smith.

This destabilisation cannot continue, a spill needs to happen by May... or they risk a NSW-like wipeout.
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Platypus
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« Reply #235 on: February 15, 2012, 10:00:08 AM »

Crean, ploise. Now.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #236 on: February 15, 2012, 12:49:01 PM »

Perhaps now would be the time to consider democratising the leadership process somewhat?
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #237 on: February 15, 2012, 01:03:59 PM »

Perhaps now would be the time to consider democratising the leadership process somewhat?

How does the rank and file feel about Rudd?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #238 on: February 15, 2012, 01:08:28 PM »

Perhaps now would be the time to consider democratising the leadership process somewhat?

How does the rank and file feel about Rudd?

I've no idea and that's really not the point.
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change08
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #239 on: February 15, 2012, 03:59:32 PM »

Perhaps now would be the time to consider democratising the leadership process somewhat?

How does the rank and file feel about Rudd?

I've no idea and that's really not the point.

Personally, i've always found the Australian way of selecting party leaders to be very strange.
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morgieb
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #240 on: February 15, 2012, 04:50:10 PM »

Perhaps now would be the time to consider democratising the leadership process somewhat?

How does the rank and file feel about Rudd?
Talking about the Caucus or everyday Labor members?
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morgieb
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #241 on: February 15, 2012, 04:51:29 PM »

Perhaps now would be the time to consider democratising the leadership process somewhat?

How does the rank and file feel about Rudd?

I've no idea and that's really not the point.

Personally, i've always found the Australian way of selecting party leaders to be very strange.

Pretty sure Labor are considering reforming it.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #242 on: February 15, 2012, 05:33:44 PM »

Perhaps now would be the time to consider democratising the leadership process somewhat?

How does the rank and file feel about Rudd?

I've no idea and that's really not the point.

Personally, i've always found the Australian way of selecting party leaders to be very strange.

Pretty sure Labor are considering reforming it.

They're talking about primaries... which to be fair doesn't exactly fill me with glee.

Rudd's popularity grows the further from Canberra you get. Those of us here 'in the bubble' know what he's really like, hence why the idea of a Rudd return terrifies both the ALP leadership and the Public Service in equal measure.
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MasterSanders
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« Reply #243 on: February 15, 2012, 05:35:47 PM »

What is Rudd's great sin?
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #244 on: February 15, 2012, 05:47:32 PM »

Perhaps now would be the time to consider democratising the leadership process somewhat?

I suspect the people who run the Labor Party wouldn't like that.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #245 on: February 15, 2012, 05:52:04 PM »


He's non-collaborative (ie Ministers often only know of a decision in their portfolio once it's announced) - this is especially bad in the ALP, where the caucus is meant to a filtering process. The other ALP-specific sin is that he's not aligned with one of the factions - which means no one trusts him. But for the public at-large (and those of us in Canberra) - he's very ill-mannered, in private every 3rd word is f*** (or some variation), and his government was marked by a lot of activity, policy made up on the fly and no real pay off.  
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Nathan
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« Reply #246 on: February 15, 2012, 06:00:40 PM »


He's non-collaborative (ie Ministers often only know of a decision in their portfolio once it's announced) - this is especially bad in the ALP, where the caucus is meant to a filtering process. The other ALP-specific sin is that he's not aligned with one of the factions - which means no one trusts him. But for the public at-large (and those of us in Canberra) - he's very ill-mannered, in private every 3rd word is f*** (or some variation), and his government was marked by a lot of activity, policy made up on the fly and no real pay off.  

Didn't he screw over Peter Garrett by making him take the fall for something he ordered Garrett's ministry to do over Garrett's head or something? Some kind of harebrained insulation scheme that ended up killing people?
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #247 on: February 15, 2012, 06:06:56 PM »


He's non-collaborative (ie Ministers often only know of a decision in their portfolio once it's announced) - this is especially bad in the ALP, where the caucus is meant to a filtering process. The other ALP-specific sin is that he's not aligned with one of the factions - which means no one trusts him. But for the public at-large (and those of us in Canberra) - he's very ill-mannered, in private every 3rd word is f*** (or some variation), and his government was marked by a lot of activity, policy made up on the fly and no real pay off.  

Didn't he screw over Peter Garrett by making him take the fall for something he ordered Garrett's ministry to do over Garrett's head or something? Some kind of harebrained insulation scheme that ended up killing people?

Yes, the Insulation Scheme was the dark-side of the generally effective 2009 stimulus package. This is probably the worst example of Rudd saying "oh, I've issued a press release saying your department will do x, make sure it works".

When I was in the public service Garrett was my Minister and he was otherwise a very capable and effective Minister. But Rudd handed him a poison chalice. When unskilled workers were trying to make money out of the billions going out, people died.

So Garrett had the energy-efficiency portfolio taken away and given to Penny Wong.
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Nathan
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« Reply #248 on: February 15, 2012, 06:29:34 PM »

How's Garrett doing at Education, out of curiosity? I remember being distinctly upset on his behalf because of how unfair it seemed and because of how I knew of his music career from when my mother used to play his cassette tapes in the car when I was little.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #249 on: February 15, 2012, 06:48:15 PM »

How's Garrett doing at Education, out of curiosity? I remember being distinctly upset on his behalf because of how unfair it seemed and because of how I knew of his music career from when my mother used to play his cassette tapes in the car when I was little.

The problem is no one really took him seriously. But people forget he's got a law degree, he's very bright and a hard worker. I wrote a speech for him back in May 2010... and he barely changed a word.

He's not doing a bad job, and considering this government he's not being talked about which probably means he's doing fine.
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