Australia General Discussion

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Can someone explain to me the factional differences between the Labor Right and Left?

[Secretary Polnut]

Can someone explain to me the factional differences between the Labor Right and Left?

They're more blurred than they used to be.

Labor right = old school Labour values, but evolved over the last 30 years to be about the market, while at the same time focusing on protections for working people. Social justice is very important, but with a tendency to be focused on the alleviation of poverty... doesn't like to get entangled in issues like gay rights, environmentalism, worked hard against abortion until the mid 1980s.

Labor left = basically, less interested in the market, and with time for more clearly identified left-wing social issues.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Can someone explain to me the factional differences between the Labor Right and Left?

They're more blurred than they used to be.

Labor right = old school Labour values, but evolved over the last 30 years to be about the market, while at the same time focusing on protections for working people. Social justice is very important, but with a tendency to be focused on the alleviation of poverty... doesn't like to get entangled in issues like gay rights, environmentalism, worked hard against abortion until the mid 1980s.

Labor left = basically, less interested in the market, and with time for more clearly identified left-wing social issues.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the Labor right has a history of affiliation with Catholicism as well while the Labor left was more secular? Everything I've read says that the differences between the two aren't ideological but based off of discreet patronage. Is this true?

[Secretary Polnut]

Can someone explain to me the factional differences between the Labor Right and Left?

They're more blurred than they used to be.

Labor right = old school Labour values, but evolved over the last 30 years to be about the market, while at the same time focusing on protections for working people. Social justice is very important, but with a tendency to be focused on the alleviation of poverty... doesn't like to get entangled in issues like gay rights, environmentalism, worked hard against abortion until the mid 1980s.

Labor left = basically, less interested in the market, and with time for more clearly identified left-wing social issues.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the Labor right has a history of affiliation with Catholicism as well while the Labor left was more secular? Everything I've read says that the differences between the two aren't ideological but based off of discreet patronage. Is this true?

As I said, that was more true 20 years ago, but more blurred now.

[Secretary Polnut]

I just had a discussion with a friend who is very knowledgeable on this who tells me that it's about an 80% chance that Gillard will call a leadership spill next Monday (27 January).

He also thinks the Caucus numbers work out like this

103 total...
Rudd: 37
Gillard: 50
Wavering: 16

The Rudd video was definitely leaked for the sake of the Caucus... the story being given by Gillard backers is even more telling. They now saying Rudd left the video in his office when he dumped, it ended up in the hands of someone in the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet. This indicates the story they're trying to tell, a) Rudd is not only rude and bad-tempered but careless and b) the Public Service, especially the department is terrified of getting Kevin 24/7 back...

It's so appallingly transparent... and probably does more to hurt Gillard.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

If Abbott wasn't heading the opposition, I'd want this dysfunctional party to fall from power asap. They need to reform themselves in a massive way so that the next time they're in control they can actually achieve significant policy changes without nattering like kids and having rampant factional problems. And I thought Democrats were aimless...

[Senator MaxQue]

Who is Wavering? Is he a current minister?

[Secretary Polnut]

Who is Wavering? Is he a current minister?

- let's call them undecided.

[Χahar]

If Abbott wasn't heading the opposition, I'd want this dysfunctional party to fall from power asap. They need to reform themselves in a massive way so that the next time they're in control they can actually achieve significant policy changes without nattering like kids and having rampant factional problems. And I thought Democrats were aimless...

The ALP is essentially our Democratic Party, and it's just as competent.

[Senator MaxQue]

Who is Wavering? Is he a current minister?

- let's call them undecided.

Oh. I'll lacking sleep I think.
So, it's looks like Democratic Party in US, or Liberals in recent years in Canada.

[RogueBeaver]

If the margin is too close then she'll be even further damaged, like Thatcher would've been had she won the second ballot in 1990. Then again, both of them are completely radioactive... so it doesn't matter much either way.

No complicated rules like UK Tories in '90, right? 50+1 = WIN, PERIOD?

[You kip if you want to...]

If Gillard calls a spill tomorrow, naturally she'll win.

[You kip if you want to...]

Queensland Premier Anna Bligh appeared to back a spill, saying: "Get on with it. Fix it."

Surely the premier's hoping for KRudd to get back to the Lodge, it can only help her own prospects of reelection.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

If Abbott wasn't heading the opposition, I'd want this dysfunctional party to fall from power asap. They need to reform themselves in a massive way so that the next time they're in control they can actually achieve significant policy changes without nattering like kids and having rampant factional problems. And I thought Democrats were aimless...

The ALP is essentially our Democratic Party, and it's just as competent.

It's more disappointing to see this from a nominally "socialist"/"progressive" party though.

[RogueBeaver]

Get this over with now rather than dragging on till June.

[Secretary Polnut]

If the margin is too close then she'll be even further damaged, like Thatcher would've been had she won the second ballot in 1990. Then again, both of them are completely radioactive... so it doesn't matter much either way.

No complicated rules like UK Tories in '90, right? 50+1 = WIN, PERIOD?

Yup, as long as you win most votes.

If Gillard calls a spill tomorrow, naturally she'll win.

There can't be a spill today because Parliament isn't sitting and Rudd is in Mexico, the US, the UK and somewhere else this week, lol.

Parliament sits next week, which is why 27-28 February are the earliest options.

[Secretary Polnut]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-20/crean-calls-for-end-to-leadership-tussle/3839504

And Crean is the hatchet-man.

[RogueBeaver]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-20/crean-calls-for-end-to-leadership-tussle/3839504

And Crean is the hatchet-man.

He's right. End this now. If Gillard wants a quick reset, she should prorogue and prepare a gimmicky Throne Speech for the reopening. Even gimmicks are better than what they're discussing right now from a Lab perspective.

[Vote UKIP!]

Polnit, do you work for any MPs or Senators? You seem to have the inside scoop.

Boy, I envy you.

By the way, I just got a sample of The Cabinet Maker, by Nicole Johnston. The book is about the political journey of an ALP MP, who is trying to salvage his career after losing a leadership battle. Fascinating.

[Secretary Polnut]

Polnit, do you work for any MPs or Senators? You seem to have the inside scoop.

Boy, I envy you.

By the way, I just got a sample of The Cabinet Maker, by Nicole Johnston. The book is about the political journey of an ALP MP, who is trying to salvage his career after losing a leadership battle. Fascinating.

If I were in that deep... I'd probably wouldn't be talking about it.

Canberra is just a small town and everyone talks.

[Vote UKIP!]

Polnit, do you work for any MPs or Senators? You seem to have the inside scoop.

Boy, I envy you.

By the way, I just got a sample of The Cabinet Maker, by Nicole Johnston. The book is about the political journey of an ALP MP, who is trying to salvage his career after losing a leadership battle. Fascinating.

If I were in that deep... I'd probably wouldn't be talking about it.

Canberra is just a small town and everyone talks.

Visiting Canberra is my bucket list.

I heard Canberra is relatively small, at least compared to Washington.

By the way, what separates ALP and Greens ideologically? Is it merely focus, or is it a "Old Left, New Left" situation?

[Secretary Polnut]

Polnit, do you work for any MPs or Senators? You seem to have the inside scoop.

Boy, I envy you.

By the way, I just got a sample of The Cabinet Maker, by Nicole Johnston. The book is about the political journey of an ALP MP, who is trying to salvage his career after losing a leadership battle. Fascinating.

If I were in that deep... I'd probably wouldn't be talking about it.

Canberra is just a small town and everyone talks.

Visiting Canberra is my bucket list.

I heard Canberra is relatively small, at least compared to Washington.

By the way, what separates ALP and Greens ideologically? Is it merely focus, or is it a "Old Left, New Left" situation?

It's geographically quite large, but small population spread over a large area.

The Greens have a bit of an internal rift going on between pure environmentalists and the far-left wing. The differences are that they are a lot more overtly left-wing on economics, support  drug legalisation and everything must be done on a basis of environmental sustainability.

The ALP is more of a mix, but generally less left-wing.

[Vote UKIP!]

Polnit, do you work for any MPs or Senators? You seem to have the inside scoop.

Boy, I envy you.

By the way, I just got a sample of The Cabinet Maker, by Nicole Johnston. The book is about the political journey of an ALP MP, who is trying to salvage his career after losing a leadership battle. Fascinating.

If I were in that deep... I'd probably wouldn't be talking about it.

Canberra is just a small town and everyone talks.

Visiting Canberra is my bucket list.

I heard Canberra is relatively small, at least compared to Washington.

By the way, what separates ALP and Greens ideologically? Is it merely focus, or is it a "Old Left, New Left" situation?

It's geographically quite large, but small population spread over a large area.

The Greens have a bit of an internal rift going on between pure environmentalists and the far-left wing. The differences are that they are a lot more overtly left-wing on economics, support  drug legalisation and everything must be done on a basis of environmental sustainability.

The ALP is more of a mix, but generally less left-wing.

I presume you are ALP. Why? I would like to see why certain Australians vote the way they do.

[Secretary Polnut]

I support the ALP because of no other options.

I vote Green first preference, but make the ALP #2. Before the Liberals went off the deep-end, I could have supported them, unfortunately the right took over compassionate social policy was replaced with wedge politics and over-liberalisation of the workplace.

[Vote UKIP!]

Sorry to hear that.

By the way, congratulations on winning the Presidency.