Should Manhunt 2 be banned?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Jack Thompson has flat out said that Manhunt 2 should be flat out banned in the US like the UK and Ireland. I'm also surprised to find people supporting this on the internets, which usually tends toward extreme libertarianism on these type of issues: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070620082000AAoVUHl

But my answer of course is no, and Jack Thompson is of course a complete waste of life.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Here's something else to think about:

I haven't played Manhunt 2, but I have played the original, and while it wasn't very good (why I haven't played Manhunt 2), it never rewarded you for killing innocent people. All the people you killed, even if it in graphic and gruesome ways, were violent criminals trying to kill you too.

I do however own several games (all from the same series), where you ARE sometimes rewarded for killing innocent people...and they are all rated T.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'm gonna say no, b/c I'm a big libertarian at issues like video games - as long as it's at least rated properly.

[Reluctant Republican]

Well, the Wie remote does have you simulating the murders right? I think that might be a bit sick, but I still would not support a ban. No one’s actually getting hurt here, and I’m a firm believer that the parents should police their children’s decision. And if your over 18, knock yourself out. Kill as many [virtual] hookers as you like.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Well, the Wie remote does have you simulating the murders right? I think that might be a bit sick, but I still would not support a ban. No one’s actually getting hurt here, and I’m a firm believer that the parents should police their children’s decision. And if your over 18, knock yourself out. Kill as many [virtual] hookers as you like.

Tell me you didn't just spell the Wii Wie - I mean, I play video games like 4 times a year, and I suck, but at least I know that. 

[AkSaber]

Well, the Wie remote does have you simulating the murders right? I think that might be a bit sick, but I still would not support a ban. No one’s actually getting hurt here, and I’m a firm believer that the parents should police their children’s decision. And if your over 18, knock yourself out. Kill as many [virtual] hookers as you like.

Tell me you didn't just spell the Wii Wie - I mean, I play video games like 4 times a year, and I suck, but at least I know that. 

Even I know that too, all thanks to my brother. He's a bit of a video game fanatic, especially about Nintendo. I'm not nearly like that. There are some games I play. Right now, and for the past two years I've been hooked on Animal Crossing: Wild World. For my Nintendo DS it's the only game I've played on it.

[dead0man]

No video game should be "banned".  Even a game simulating you, as Jesus, raping Ayn Rand.  Stores can chose to sell or not sell specific games.  People can refuse to shop at stores that sell certain games.  If the video game makers want to get together to make it difficult for games of a hardcore nature to get published, that's their business.

But the govt shouldn't be in the business of telling it's citizens what they should and shouldn't be playing on their TV's and their PC's.  Individual liberty trumps everything else, even the opinion of the hollier-than-thou's.

[Michael Z]

Manhunt 2 wasn't "banned" here, it was rejected by the BBFC pending some changes. Once these changes are implemented, the game will most likely be released. I think it's worth mentioning that the BBFC has no connections to the government but is an independent regulatory body.

But as for the question, of course it shouldn't be banned.

[Reluctant Republican]

Well, the Wie remote does have you simulating the murders right? I think that might be a bit sick, but I still would not support a ban. No one’s actually getting hurt here, and I’m a firm believer that the parents should police their children’s decision. And if your over 18, knock yourself out. Kill as many [virtual] hookers as you like.

Tell me you didn't just spell the Wii Wie - I mean, I play video games like 4 times a year, and I suck, but at least I know that. 

Bah. I guess my lack of  nerdyness is showing, ha. I don’t really follow any of these next gen consoles, I’m a PC fan boy myself. Might get a PS3 though.

[Lief 🗽]

No, but the ESRB rating system should also be reformed. At the moment, due to the way consoles can control what can and cannot go on their systems, an AO rating is an effective banning.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Ban it? No.

But the question here lies in why the games are popular (I'm still not convinced it is because of the natural violence innate in Males - we are talking about video games here.) ; banning is a just a form of fetishizing the product in a way.

EDIT: Very important edit, added in the bit in bold. (Damn typos.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I know a girl (a scene girl, but still) who likes video games and loved the original Manhunt, so it's clearly not a male thing. She's also a big fan of movies like Last House on the Left and The Hills Have Eyes despite being a straightedge jmfcst-esque Christian (
Actually I shouldn't say jmfcst-esque, she's not a homophobic bigot with that temple fetish. But she does buy into that Rapture/End Times stuff and believes it's coming soon.) Anyway, strange types you meet.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I know a girl (a scene girl, but still) who likes video games and loved the original Manhunt, so it's clearly not a male thing. She's also a big fan of movies like Last House on the Left and The Hills Have Eyes despite being a straightedge jmfcst-esque Christian (
Actually I shouldn't say jmfcst-esque, she's not a homophobic bigot with that temple fetish. But she does buy into that Rapture/End Times stuff and believes it's coming soon.) Anyway, strange types you meet.

One thing: note the correction in my original post. Actually I pretty much think the reason for the appeal of violent video games has nothing to do with that really.

And I know quite a couple of people like quite the girl really. (Well except Straightedge and Jmfcst-esque. I have never heard of anyone who was actually straightedge; it is mainly used as the butt of jokes.)

[DownWithTheLeft]

No video game should be banned and the ESRB should be shut down (damn you Tipper Gore and Joe Lieberman!)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And I know quite a couple of people like quite the girl really. (Well except Straightedge and Jmfcst-esque. I have never heard of anyone who was actually straightedge; it is mainly used as the butt of jokes.)

You know scene girls?

Also that's kind of like saying "I know lots of people like opebo except they aren't sex tourists." The being straightedge and jmfcst-esque is what makes her odd.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

And I know quite a couple of people like quite the girl really. (Well except Straightedge and Jmfcst-esque. I have never heard of anyone who was actually straightedge; it is mainly used as the butt of jokes.)

You know scene girls?

Define "scene". No matter how much times you have used it, I still don't know what it is.

I do know (vaguely mostly) many bohemian types though.

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It was kind of like the personality you were described. Opebo could still be opebo without being a sex tourist; he wouldn't do the same things but would still be the same person with the same personality.

Of course I might be imagining this girl completely wrong. It is the Internets after all.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And I know quite a couple of people like quite the girl really. (Well except Straightedge and Jmfcst-esque. I have never heard of anyone who was actually straightedge; it is mainly used as the butt of jokes.)

You know scene girls?

Define "scene". No matter how much times you have used it, I still don't know what it is.

I do know (vaguely mostly) many bohemian types though.

No. Those aren't scene kids at all.

Scene kids are people who collect vinyl (of only modern day music in the further listed categories), listen primarily to hardcore, punk and indie rock and all related genres, frequently go to shows (NOT concerts, shows. Concerts are big.), and used MySpace about two years before it got huge. That Dude Fest I went to over the summer was basically a huge scene kid meet up.

Actually that definition is kind of dumb. Could be easily defined simply only as people who listen to "scene" music, which is a rather broad category still (hell, let's just define it as "everything I listen to"). Actually anyone who is a collector of modern day vinyl and isn't a raver kid would classify to get most basic.

They are also virtually nonexistant in Ireland. I can't think of any Irish bands of the type.

It was kind of like the personality you were described. Opebo could still be opebo without being a sex tourist; he wouldn't do the same things but would still be the same person with the same personality.

Of course I might be imagining this girl completely wrong. It is the Internets after all.

Yes, it seems like you are.

And do straightedge people even exist in Ireland? That sounds like an oxymoron.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

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Ah now. I can't say I know anyone that description. Though apparently vinyl is coming back to fashion again.. (though probably unrelated.)

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I can't think of anything either. Though the term "indie rock" is very broad.

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Until about four months ago I would have said no. But apparently they do; though this is something I have only HEARD about. It is mainly related to certain marginal Dublin scenes (probably not in the "scene" sense.)

Though yes an Irish straightedge person is a very strange thing indeed..

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

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Ah now. I can't say I know anyone that description. Though apparently vinyl is coming back to fashion again.. (though probably unrelated.)

Somewhat related.

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I can't think of anything either. Though the term "indie rock" is very broad.

In this context, it's like this: http://www.purevolume.com/appleseedcast

Until about four months ago I would have said no. But apparently they do; though this is something I have only HEARD about. It is mainly related to certain marginal Dublin scenes (probably not in the "scene" sense.)

Though yes an Irish straightedge person is a very strange thing indeed..

Wow, that sounds horrible. Terribly tragic.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

No video game should be banned and the ESRB should be shut down (damn you Tipper Gore and Joe Lieberman!)

How exactly does the ESRB work - and what's w/ the rumors of an essential ban on all violent video games that I hear about every month or so?

[DownWithTheLeft]

No video game should be banned and the ESRB should be shut down (damn you Tipper Gore and Joe Lieberman!)

How exactly does the ESRB work - and what's w/ the rumors of an essential ban on all violent video games that I hear about every month or so?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESRB

Apparently they are self-sufficent but the government recognizes their decisions.  They should be abolished as a massive free-speech infringment.  Their ratings stop kids from buying games.  For example, I cannot buy an M rated game as a 16 year old, but if an 8 year old has their parent its alright which it is why its so stupid.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

No video game should be banned and the ESRB should be shut down (damn you Tipper Gore and Joe Lieberman!)

How exactly does the ESRB work - and what's w/ the rumors of an essential ban on all violent video games that I hear about every month or so?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESRB

Apparently they are self-sufficent but the government recognizes their decisions.  They should be abolished as a massive free-speech infringment.  Their ratings stop kids from buying games.  For example, I cannot buy an M rated game as a 16 year old, but if an 8 year old has their parent its alright which it is why its so stupid.

The ratings don't stop kids from buying them - that's a store-by-store policy.  And my understanding is that the ESRB is like the MPAA ratings.  Here's where I wind up being moderately libertarian: I feel that there SHOULD be ratings, but that it's not the government's job to enforce the ratings, UNLESS the product is being used on government property (like a library - which is why I have a problem w/ letting kids use unfiltered library computers, which is illegal in Michigan, but a lot of libraries don't enforce it).

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There's no law enforcing the ESRB policy. Any such laws attempting to have been ruled out by the courts. Even I was under 17 I also had no problems buying M-rated games ever, things must've changed a lot.

As far as banning all violent video games, will never happen, that'd never last 5 minutes in court.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

There's no law enforcing the ESRB policy. Any such laws attempting to have been ruled out by the courts. Even I was under 17 I also had no problems buying M-rated games ever, things must've changed a lot.

As far as banning all violent video games, will never happen, that'd never last 5 minutes in court.

But a store can keep an underage kid from buying it - like Blockbuster and R-rated movies or movie theaters and R-rated movies (not that I've EVER seen the policy at a theater enforced - but I know that Blockbuster does).

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Blockbuster didn't back in my time thankfully.

I don't see theaters enforce this policy either. Thanksgiving break I saw a sign at the theater that said carding would be done for all R-rated movies, but my brother who's just 17 and thus theoretically COULD be underage wasn't carded to go to Hitman with me (neither was I, but that's not unexpected.) My brother also claims he WAS carded to go to Snakes on a Plane, and he was 16 then, but they let him in anyway. I've also been getting into R-rated movies since I was 15 (without being carded)

That's the point though, enforcement is just a policy, not the law. Any law mandating it never lasts.