Venezuela Referendum

[Angel of Death]

Measures like presidential term limits are (indeed technically undemocratic) hacks that fail to address the fundamental problem here, namely the presidential system itself. It gives too much power to a single person.

[bullmoose88]

Anyone else besides me think this minor setback will be beneficial to Chavez in the long run?

Yes. It shows Venezuela is a working democracy, and he can use it as ammo for a future run.

Now I guess the question is, anyone think Chavez staged this loss?

lol.  when he wins, the election is obviously rigged.  and when he loses, it is, too? 

the shortest distance between two points is a straight line...

I'm only asking the question of what result is actually more beneficial to Chavez in the long run.  The fact that a loss is even a possible answer raises issues.

[ottermax]

Why are there so many conspiracy theories? Chavez staging the loss, Chavez changing the law later. I think he will listen to the people, because if he decides to go against their wishes, they would overthrow him anyway. This is a perfect example of the people stopping dictatorship.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It passed in the large sparsely populated areas. If Venezuela awarded electoral votes based upon land area or a fixed number per State, Chavez's referendums would have passed.

[Verily]

Why are there so many conspiracy theories? Chavez staging the loss, Chavez changing the law later. I think he will listen to the people, because if he decides to go against their wishes, they would overthrow him anyway. This is a perfect example of the people stopping dictatorship.

Not when an exit poll showed this failing 34-66. Yes, exit polls can be wrong, but they're never that far wrong. It's fairly obvious that Chavez decided making the referendums pass would look too dodgy, so he had them fail narrowly enough to be able to claim a mandate to reintroduce them in a couple of years. This gives him some veneer of democratic legitimacy because he can say, "Look, I obeyed the will of the people," but he's not doing so.

[bullmoose88]

Why are there so many conspiracy theories? Chavez staging the loss, Chavez changing the law later. I think he will listen to the people, because if he decides to go against their wishes, they would overthrow him anyway. This is a perfect example of the people stopping dictatorship.

Not when an exit poll showed this failing 34-66. Yes, exit polls can be wrong, but they're never that far wrong. It's fairly obvious that Chavez decided making the referendums pass would look too dodgy, so he had them fail narrowly enough to be able to claim a mandate to reintroduce them in a couple of years. This gives him some veneer of democratic legitimacy because he can say, "Look, I obeyed the will of the people," but he's not doing so.

Basically what I was getting at.  While I don't know if I believe this to be true, I do think people should consider this as a possible scenario.

[Erc]

Chavez 'will leave power in 2013'

Not that he won't pull a Putin or manage things from behind the scenes...or simply reintroduce the referendum.

[Hash]

Chavez 'will leave power in 2013'

Not that he won't pull a Putin or manage things from behind the scenes...or simply reintroduce the referendum.

So he says.