Fetus' POV

[Ebowed]

Opinion of the following piece:

It takes a lot of nerve to kill someone.  You know, an actual human being, with their own distinct set of emotions and personal quirks.  To terminate a human life is the ultimate act; the biggest display of power one possesses over their fellow man.  We view this act as something extreme and horrific, yet we numb ourselves to the very harsh reality that it is happening every single day, often with our tacit approval.  Murders of convenience.

I was four months old when my parents decided that I was not a valuable asset to the world.  My shot at existence is completely gone, and all of the great things I could have done will never happen, simply because my mother felt that the joy of bringing a new human being into the world would not outweigh the financial hardships she would incur, or the monotonous inconvenience of having to change my diaper or make sure I was being fed properly.

Not that I'm bitter.

I will never know the real reason my parents didn't want me.  Maybe my father raped my mother.  While I can't identify with the pain my mother might have gone through, I don't see why that justifies killing me!  Or maybe a doctor told my parents that I was going to be deformed, disabled, or retarded.  That my quality of life wouldn't be good enough.  Well, no one consulted me on the matter, and frankly, I would have liked to have a shot at life.

Either way, I can't harp on this subject forever.  (You'll have to excuse my one-track mind; given my age and stage in fetal development, there isn't a whole lot else that I can really talk about.)  And I suppose, in a way, that I am genuinely grateful to my parents for giving me a shot at life, however brief and unappreciated it was.  Those four months were alright, you know.  Especially when I sprouted a fresh pair of legs.  That was totally cool.

Anyway, I suppose I'll go crawl back into my hole now.  It's a hole with a lot of other people like me.  Don't worry about us, though; our chance has come and gone.  You're busy people, and you've got other things to bother yourselves with.  Have a good day.

[Friz]

Fetuses can't talk.

[Bono]

What's the catch?

[Gabu]

At the age of four months, there is no detectable brain activity from the fetus whatsoever, and as such, there is no reason to believe that the fetus is sentient or even conscious at that point, let alone capable of originating such complex thought.

I can never quite resist rolling my eyes at those who try to frame the abortion debate as "is it okay to murder babies?".  The question is not that, but "is it murder?".  It's no wonder why the debate never goes anywhere; this is a completely typical example of one side trying to force the other to accept their pre-formed conclusions before even allowing the "debate" to begin.  Both sides are guilty of this to ridiculous extents.

[Jake]

First two paragraphs represent why I can't countenance abortion.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

First two paragraphs represent why I can't countenance abortion.

Yes; but I still don't think it should be illegal.

[NDN]

At the age of four months, there is no detectable brain activity from the fetus whatsoever, and as such, there is no reason to believe that the fetus is sentient or even conscious at that point, let alone capable of originating such complex thought.

I can never quite resist rolling my eyes at those who try to frame the abortion debate as "is it okay to murder babies?".  The question is not that, but "is it murder?".  It's no wonder why the debate never goes anywhere; this is a completely typical example of one side trying to force the other to accept their pre-formed conclusions before even allowing the "debate" to begin.  Both sides are guilty of this to ridiculous extents.

[Padfoot]

At the age of four months, there is no detectable brain activity from the fetus whatsoever, and as such, there is no reason to believe that the fetus is sentient or even conscious at that point, let alone capable of originating such complex thought.

I can never quite resist rolling my eyes at those who try to frame the abortion debate as "is it okay to murder babies?".  The question is not that, but "is it murder?".  It's no wonder why the debate never goes anywhere; this is a completely typical example of one side trying to force the other to accept their pre-formed conclusions before even allowing the "debate" to begin.  Both sides are guilty of this to ridiculous extents.

[Lief 🗽]

What Gabu said. Scientifically, there is no evidence that a fetus is cognizant. Even if you just look at them, they don't look human at all and they're tiny. While one could make the religious argument that it has a soul at conception, religion shouldn't be a basis for public policy.

[Person Man]

I think that abortion is really murder because of the mixed human reaction to it. How is it something as primal as murder comparable to abortion when everyone thinks that murder is an ultimate injustice while there is so much prevelant disagreement about abortion. Also, the idea of abortion bans and "unborn people" is just very bizzare if you think about. Protecting life outside of our basic understanding of birth and death seems to be something out of the pages of fantasy and sci-fi.

[tik 🪀✨]

That made me laugh, honestly.

[Eraserhead]

I am a fetus. I am the child of victory.

[Person Man]

Fetus sounds like a Roman name.

I am a fetus. I am the child of victory.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Fetuses can't talk.

Neither can mute people - but they can indicate pain - just like this fetus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvshMADC7s0

[Gabu]

Fetuses can't talk.

Neither can mute people - but they can indicate pain - just like this fetus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvshMADC7s0

At what stage of pregnancy was that?  I think it's fairly obvious that at some point along the line, the fetus becomes conscious and sentient, but anyone who thinks that time is at birth is not exactly in accordance with science or basic logic.  Heck, the embryo doesn't even have a beating heart until around 21 days of pregnancy, if I recall correctly; it would be declared clinically dead by all known metrics if it had been already born and was found in that state.

[Person Man]

Fetuses can't talk.

Neither can mute people - but they can indicate pain - just like this fetus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvshMADC7s0

Silent Scream? That video is so full of crap.

[muon2]

At the age of four months, there is no detectable brain activity from the fetus whatsoever, and as such, there is no reason to believe that the fetus is sentient or even conscious at that point, let alone capable of originating such complex thought.

I'm sure I understand the claim about four months. You may be focusing on particular types of brain activity. The brainstem is formed at seven weeks and operates to create movement at nine gestation weeks (subtract two weeks to get time after conception). You can find similar delvelopmental timelines at the Mayo Clinic's site. Statements like there is brain activity 40-43 days after conception are consistent with this.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Fetuses can't talk.

Neither can mute people - but they can indicate pain - just like this fetus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvshMADC7s0

At what stage of pregnancy was that?  I think it's fairly obvious that at some point along the line, the fetus becomes conscious and sentient, but anyone who thinks that time is at birth is not exactly in accordance with science or basic logic.  Heck, the embryo doesn't even have a beating heart until around 21 days of pregnancy, if I recall correctly; it would be declared clinically dead by all known metrics if it had been already born and was found in that state.

I really don't remember - it says somewhere in one of the videos.  It might've been 12 weeks.

[Person Man]

most abortions happen around that time, however, brainstem does not equal sentience, when do higher brain functions begin to form? When does the fetus start to dream and sense?

Fetuses can't talk.

Neither can mute people - but they can indicate pain - just like this fetus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvshMADC7s0

At what stage of pregnancy was that?  I think it's fairly obvious that at some point along the line, the fetus becomes conscious and sentient, but anyone who thinks that time is at birth is not exactly in accordance with science or basic logic.  Heck, the embryo doesn't even have a beating heart until around 21 days of pregnancy, if I recall correctly; it would be declared clinically dead by all known metrics if it had been already born and was found in that state.

I really don't remember - it says somewhere in one of the videos.  It might've been 12 weeks.

It's not really 12 week, its a fundie snuff film created in the 80s which might have been ironically created by a secular rightist.

[muon2]

most abortions happen around that time, however, brainstem does not equal sentience, when do higher brain functions begin to form? When does the fetus start to dream and sense?

Consciousness or sentience are not the determining factors to determine life or the occurrence of death. This nice summary was on about.com.

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My emphasis added.

[Gabu]

At the age of four months, there is no detectable brain activity from the fetus whatsoever, and as such, there is no reason to believe that the fetus is sentient or even conscious at that point, let alone capable of originating such complex thought.

I'm sure I understand the claim about four months. You may be focusing on particular types of brain activity. The brainstem is formed at seven weeks and operates to create movement at nine gestation weeks (subtract two weeks to get time after conception). You can find similar delvelopmental timelines at the Mayo Clinic's site. Statements like there is brain activity 40-43 days after conception are consistent with this.

I can't find the article where I saw that, but this one has it not until 25-28 weeks of pregnancy that the "nervous system [is] developed enough to control some body functions", making it sound like all body functions prior to that point were simply reflexive in nature.

[Person Man]

At the age of four months, there is no detectable brain activity from the fetus whatsoever, and as such, there is no reason to believe that the fetus is sentient or even conscious at that point, let alone capable of originating such complex thought.

I'm sure I understand the claim about four months. You may be focusing on particular types of brain activity. The brainstem is formed at seven weeks and operates to create movement at nine gestation weeks (subtract two weeks to get time after conception). You can find similar delvelopmental timelines at the Mayo Clinic's site. Statements like there is brain activity 40-43 days after conception are consistent with this.

I can't find the article where I saw that, but this one has it not until 25-28 weeks of pregnancy that the "nervous system [is] developed enough to control some body functions", making it sound like all body functions prior to that point were simply reflexive in nature.

This point would appear to be moot because these critereon, according to my bioethics class, is not universally accepted nor is it certain that by 9 weeks there will be even brain stem function. It is, however certain by 12 weeks....and we must also be mindful that there is a distinct difference between not beingg sentient and not even having that oppurtunity. Simply put- it is a bizzare concept that birth actually would DECREASE one's moral significance or at least be reduced to a less significant event.

[Gabu]

and we must also be mindful that there is a distinct difference between not beingg sentient and not even having that oppurtunity. Simply put- it is a bizzare concept that birth actually would DECREASE one's moral significance or at least be reduced to a less significant event.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

[Person Man]

and we must also be mindful that there is a distinct difference between not beingg sentient and not even having that oppurtunity. Simply put- it is a bizzare concept that birth actually would DECREASE one's moral significance or at least be reduced to a less significant event.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

What I am saying is that there are significant differences between the comatose and those who are not even born. I am also saying that I do no buy the argument that the fetus is more important than the potential mother.

[© tweed]

emotionally manipulative bullsh**t