Gays in the Military?

[DownWithTheLeft]

I recently thought about this.  I had always been against it, but it remained one those list of issues I had never thought about in great detail.  I have changed mind and now support gays in the military.  I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.  Opinions?

[Ebowed]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.  Opinions?

Perhaps if its on the level of sexual harassment, but that's already covered.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

Yes, if it is a unisex unit the purpose is to avoid sexual conduct, therefore, this shouldn't be circumvented by a homosexual love affair.

[Ebowed]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

Yes, if it is a unisex unit the purpose is to avoid sexual conduct, therefore, this shouldn't be circumvented by a homosexual love affair.

Yeah, but married couples are allowed to have sex in the military.  Why not gay couples?

[DownWithTheLeft]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

Yes, if it is a unisex unit the purpose is to avoid sexual conduct, therefore, this shouldn't be circumvented by a homosexual love affair.

Yeah, but married couples are allowed to have sex in the military.  Why not gay couples?

It depends on the circumstance, if they are in a gender specific unit, they should not be having sex.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

Yes, if it is a unisex unit the purpose is to avoid sexual conduct, therefore, this shouldn't be circumvented by a homosexual love affair.

Yeah, but married couples are allowed to have sex in the military.  Why not gay couples?

It depends on the circumstance, if they are in a gender specific unit, they should not be having sex.

Well, that's really none of your business... so... yeah.  Who are you to decide who should be having sex with whom/what?

Oh yeah.. you're a 16 year old male fundie... what people do with their penis/anus/vagina occupies every moment of your existence.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

Yes, if it is a unisex unit the purpose is to avoid sexual conduct, therefore, this shouldn't be circumvented by a homosexual love affair.

Yeah, but married couples are allowed to have sex in the military.  Why not gay couples?

It depends on the circumstance, if they are in a gender specific unit, they should not be having sex.

Well, that's really none of your business... so... yeah.  Who are you to decide who should be having sex with whom/what?

Oh yeah.. you're a 16 year old male fundie... what people do with their penis/anus/vagina occupies every moment of your existence.

The idea of me being a fundie is absurd, also you should really read what I posted.  I said if the unit is purposely unisex with the idea of not having sexual relations, then they should not be having sex.

[Ebowed]

I said if the unit is purposely unisex with the idea of not having sexual relations, then they should not be having sex.

Why do you care?  It's none of your business.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I said if the unit is purposely unisex with the idea of not having sexual relations, then they should not be having sex.

Why do you care?  It's none of your business.

Its the business of the United States government, what someone is doing on the government's time and they are being paid by the government should be the business of the government.  This is like arguing that people should not be fired for having sex in an office all day long because its none of the employers business.

[Ebowed]

I said if the unit is purposely unisex with the idea of not having sexual relations, then they should not be having sex.

Why do you care?  It's none of your business.

Its the business of the United States government, what someone is doing on the government's time and they are being paid by the government should be the business of the government.  This is like arguing that people should not be fired for having sex in an office all day long because its none of the employers business.

So people in the military don't have any free time?  That's silly and you know it.

[Verily]

I said if the unit is purposely unisex with the idea of not having sexual relations, then they should not be having sex.

Why do you care?  It's none of your business.

Its the business of the United States government, what someone is doing on the government's time and they are being paid by the government should be the business of the government.  This is like arguing that people should not be fired for having sex in an office all day long because its none of the employers business.

That argument only applies if soldiers are having sex on the battlefield. If it's at any down time, which is a good part of the time even during active duty and certainly when not on active duty, your argument holds no water.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I said if the unit is purposely unisex with the idea of not having sexual relations, then they should not be having sex.

Why do you care?  It's none of your business.

Its the business of the United States government, what someone is doing on the government's time and they are being paid by the government should be the business of the government.  This is like arguing that people should not be fired for having sex in an office all day long because its none of the employers business.

So people in the military don't have any free time?  That's silly and you know it.

They have free time, but they are still on active duty.  Honest question (I have no knowledge of military down time), where exactly do these people find the privacy to just have sex?  Maybe this is effecting my judgment of the situation.

[Richard]

I don't know why you Americans are so scared of a draft.  Just say you are gay and you're excused from service.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I don't know why you Americans are so scared of a draft.  Just say you are gay and you're excused from service.

The military convieniently ignore such things when ignoring them suits their purpose.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

Yes, as well as same-sex couples.  I'm kinda in MAS's situation right now, although I haven't gone over to the other side - I'm undecided and debating in the middle.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

Yes, as well as same-sex couples.  I'm kinda in MAS's situation right now, although I haven't gone over to the other side - I'm undecided and debating in the middle.

Where the hell did MAS post in the thread?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

Yes, as well as same-sex couples.  I'm kinda in MAS's situation right now, although I haven't gone over to the other side - I'm undecided and debating in the middle.

Where the hell did MAS post in the thread?

Damn you and your stupid Red NJ Avatar!

[DownWithTheLeft]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

Yes, as well as same-sex couples.  I'm kinda in MAS's situation right now, although I haven't gone over to the other side - I'm undecided and debating in the middle.

Where the hell did MAS post in the thread?

Damn you and your stupid Red NJ Avatar!

C'mon did you really think you'd be agreeing w/MAS instead of me

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

Yes, as well as same-sex couples.  I'm kinda in MAS's situation right now, although I haven't gone over to the other side - I'm undecided and debating in the middle.

Where the hell did MAS post in the thread?

Damn you and your stupid Red NJ Avatar!

C'mon did you really think you'd be agreeing w/MAS instead of me

Well, I kinda found it odd that MAS wouldn't have been for gays in the military to begin w/.

[dead0man]

They have free time, but they are still on active duty.  Honest question (I have no knowledge of military down time), where exactly do these people find the privacy to just have sex?  Maybe this is effecting my judgment of the situation.

You don't think people in the military spend 100% of their time outside doing pushups or inside sleeping in a big room with 20 bunk beds do you?  We go to bars, have wives, take vacations, own homes, etc. 

Where do they have sex?  Usually in their bedrooms.

(but yes, people on Active Duty never really have down time.  I was called in on several occasions at zero:dark thirty for exercises and what not.  Even on leave the govt can (and has) call people back on duty.)

[CPT MikeyMike]

What you guys need to know is that a Soldier is government property - on and off duty. If you are going to do something that us against the rules, then be ready to face punishment under UCMJ.

Personally I don't care what Soldiers does in their off time. As long as they are at formation and do their task to the standard, I got no problem with it. However, with that being said, the current "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy needs to stay in place for the safety of those Soldiers who are homosexual. This is not the environment where one should flaunt their sexual preference and that's only for a Soldier's protection.

[afleitch]

What I can't stand about this issue (and gay marriage too) is that for many conservatives it's about 'themselves' Forget the rights of individual gays and lesbians as American citizens; other soliders might be put off, married coupes might feel less worthy and all that nonsense. You can have whole debates on these two issues without gay people being directly mentioned.

The 'discomfort' of a member of the armed forces or any organisation towards another person is their problem (if indeed it does exist) and not the fault of the person they serve with.  We don't tolerate personal 'discomfort' towards blacks or non-Christians serving in the armed forces. If anyone did, the weight of law would rightfully kick their ass. If someone is sexually promiscuous in an innapropriate manner then fine discipline them as the army already does, but you shouldn't throw out a guy for saying 'Hey guys I'm gay' if peoples blatant bigotry or misunderstanding shows through as 'discomfort'.

[Silent Hunter]

I've got no problem with it. Being gay does not affect your abilities as a soldier. What you do off-duty, provided it's legal, usually has no relevance.

If people are uncomfortable serving around gays, don't join the military. End of. If they think they're doing wrong, try and convert them. Just do it within limits.

Of course, you shouldn't have to declare your sexual preferences when joining the military or most other organisations.

afleitch makes a brilliant point.

[Wakie]

It is ridiculous to exclude someone for sexual preference.  It is about as valid as excluding someone for their religion.