Northern Ireland General Discussion

[Estrella]

Jim Allister made me spit my drink out when he called Sinn Fein "West Brits" for relying on the UK government to pass the Irish Language Act. It shows you that the state of Loyalism is like a real life version of an internet conspiracy rabbit hole. Let's hope they keep digging for Ireland's, and all our sanity's sake!

I took a look at Jim Allister's social media just for the lolz and on his Facebook he linked to this article.

Modern nationalism adopted the late 18th century ideas of German Romanticism, which rejected the Enlightenment ideals on which the United Irish and modern Unionism are founded (science, reason, industry, liberal-democracy, internationalism and cosmopolitanism). It regarded all modern progress and development as corrupt and corrupting of the ‘true’ Ireland, which they defined as Roman Catholic, peasant-farmer and above all — Gaelic speaking. Language, ie Gaelic, was of prime importance, to establish linguistic, economic, political, social and cultural barriers to the outside world (Sinn Fein — ourselves alone) and to attack an English speaking culture that championed the Enlightenment and its values.

Economically Gaelic is useless and functional to only a small number of self-indulgent activists who will make an highly (tax payer) subsidised living out of translations no one really needs. Unionists should stress the richness and success of their shared cultural heritage within the UK, not least in science (where English is the universal language) and the arts (where all the great ‘Irish’ names wrote in English).

This isn't a dog whistle, this is a dog megaphone.

(Also, I hate being a grammar nazi, but if you want to extoll the virtues of English over dirty peasant Gaelic, you should perhaps know that it's "a highly", not "an highly")

[YL]

So will Jeffrey Donaldson be next?

[YL]

Jeffrey Donaldson will be the new DUP leader; there were no other candidates.  So it's back to an ex-UUP figure after the Poots interlude.

Assuming he does indeed move to Stormont, that'll mean a potentially interesting by-election for his Lagan Valley Westminster seat.

[YL]

Latest on the Donaldson succession: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/26/sir-jeffrey-donaldson-endorsed-to-lead-dup

No clear timescale for him taking over from Poots's nominee Paul Givan as First Minister and a Lagan Valley by-election.

[YL]

Jeffrey Donaldson says he intends to stand in Lagan Valley in the forthcoming Assembly election unless a vacancy occurs first.  (Irish Times article)

It'd be interesting if Donaldson, Poots and Givan all stand for the DUP in a constituency where they currently only hold two seats.  Also this would mean a Westminster by-election unless double-jobbing somehow gets unbanned.

[CumbrianLefty]

One of the other DUPers standing for the Westminster vacancy is of course an obvious next step.

[beesley]

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1431508490791657473?s=19

The figures are not the important thing - but the broader trend of the unionists splintering or the divides within unionism widening might be worth noting. The other argument and perhaps the greater cause of these figures is that it's just the ramifications of the DUP's internal woes. Of course the figures are actually not bad for unionists.

[Hnv1]

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1431508490791657473?s=19

The figures are not the important thing - but the broader trend of the unionists splintering or the divides within unionism widening might be worth noting. The other argument and perhaps the greater cause of these figures is that it's just the ramifications of the DUP's internal woes. Of course the figures are actually not bad for unionists.

Why are TUV polling so high? Weren’t they a single issue party for paramilitary prisoners?

[CumbrianLefty]

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1431508490791657473?s=19

The figures are not the important thing - but the broader trend of the unionists splintering or the divides within unionism widening might be worth noting. The other argument and perhaps the greater cause of these figures is that it's just the ramifications of the DUP's internal woes. Of course the figures are actually not bad for unionists.

Why are TUV polling so high? Weren’t they a single issue party for paramilitary prisoners?

I think you are actually referring to the (now defunct) Ulster Democratic Party there.

TUV is more a vehicle for those who see the modern DUP as betraying the "true flame" of Paisleyism.

[beesley]

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1431508490791657473?s=19

The figures are not the important thing - but the broader trend of the unionists splintering or the divides within unionism widening might be worth noting. The other argument and perhaps the greater cause of these figures is that it's just the ramifications of the DUP's internal woes. Of course the figures are actually not bad for unionists.

Why are TUV polling so high? Weren’t they a single issue party for paramilitary prisoners?

As Cumbrian Leftie described above, despite being the status quo, as with any extreme there is opportunity for a unionists protest vote.

[Cassius]

Big opportunity for the UUP, were it not for the fact that the UUP is so bad at politics.

[Frodo]

https://twitter.com/NextIrishGE/status/1431508490791657473?s=19
The figures are not the important thing - but the broader trend of the unionists splintering or the divides within unionism widening might be worth noting. The other argument and perhaps the greater cause of these figures is that it's just the ramifications of the DUP's internal woes. Of course the figures are actually not bad for unionists.

So Sinn Fein and the SDLP are the only nationalist parties in this poll, with everyone else being unionists?  

[Lord Halifax]

So Sinn Fein and the SDLP are the only nationalist parties in this poll, with everyone else being unionists?  

People Before Profit is in favor of "a 32 county socialist Ireland".

[Frodo]

Where do the TUV and ALL parties fall on the unionist-nationalist spectrum?

[YL]

Where do the TUV and ALL parties fall on the unionist-nationalist spectrum?

"ALL" is Alliance, so neither Unionist with a big U nor Nationalist with a big N, but their voters would presumably break for the status quo in a border poll.  The Greens are also neither Unionist nor Nationalist.

"TUV" is Traditional Unionist Voice: people who think the DUP have gone soft.

[Frodo]

In case anyone is wondering, results from the 2021 census are coming out in stages, with the first coming in June:

Release plans for Census 2021 statistics

[Frodo]

I am happy for Sinn Fein, though the Democratic Unionist Party will ensure their victory is bitter-sweet as they choose to become the Northern Irish equivalent of the U.S. Republican Party by picking the path of sour grapes and obstructionism rather than allow Sinn Fein to pick the First Minister for the first time ever:

Sinn Fein hails 'new era' as it wins Northern Ireland vote

[CumbrianLefty]

Obstructionism will only continue the DUP's long term decline, though.

[Frodo]

With Prime Minister Boris Johnson gone, what does this mean for Northern Ireland?  I know that he intended to rip up the Northern Ireland Protocol so the DUP will finally agree to serve under a Sinn Fein-led government.   

[Zinneke]

With Prime Minister Boris Johnson gone, what does this mean for Northern Ireland?  I know that he intended to rip up the Northern Ireland Protocol so the DUP will finally agree to serve under a Sinn Fein-led government.   

It means every Tory leader bar a few that want to sell themselves on their moderate image will use the Northern Ireland issue to throw red meat to the blustering, flag-waving boomer base because not a single Westminster-based Tory (bar Theresa May weirdly enough) doesn't actually care about strict outcomes in NI. its a tool to be politically useful for them , presenting their Thatcher tribute act credentials without having to commit to unrealistic tax cuts or what not.

[CumbrianLefty]

There will be that rhetoric during the leadership contest, yes.

The question is if they are actually prepared to be more pragmatic in office.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Lord Trimble (David Trimble) former leader of the UUP (1995-2005), former First Minister (1998-2002) and one of the architects of the Good Friday Agreement (for which he won the Nobel Peace Prize jointly with the late John Hume) has died. He was seventy seven.

[Frodo]

King Charles III (assuming he has a similar lifespan as his late mother) could be the last British monarch to visit Northern Ireland while it is still part of the United Kingdom:

Charles lll makes maiden visit to Northern Ireland as English king

[CumbrianLefty]

Have to say that Sinn Fein have acquitted themselves notably well this past week.

[LabourJersey]

King Charles III (assuming he has a similar lifespan as his late mother) could be the last British monarch to visit Northern Ireland while it is still part of the United Kingdom:

Charles lll makes maiden visit to Northern Ireland as English king

Perhaps, but reunification is not a certainty, not even now. The fallout of Brexit and the death of a popular shared monarch makes it a lot more likely than it was before 2016, for sure. But it would be a long, drawn out and ugly process that may not even be in the Republic's interest (at least in the short-term).

Will be fascinating to follow over the next few years, though.