Northern Ireland General Discussion

[Verily]

The DUP aren't just a bunch of fundamentalists... in any case, I don't see how hooking up with the Tories (again) will help the UUP at all. Maybe people should remember quite how well (or rather "badly") the Tories did when they stood in NI in '92.

They stood some candidates in 2005, didn't they? In just a few seats, and got something like 0.3% of the vote.

[Rural Radical]

Personally it would be nice for the mainland parties to be succesful there.

I would imagine most SF & DUP voters would be pretty solidly Labour which would mean that most seats would be Labour.

[Χahar]

Personally it would be nice for the mainland parties to be succesful there.

I would imagine most SF & DUP voters would be pretty solidly Labour which would mean that most seats would be Labour.

DUP? Labour? I really don't see it (but I'm only somewhat familiar with NI politics). Same goes for SF. It seems well to the left of Labour. On the other hand, the SDLP essentially is Labour.

[Sibboleth]

Personally it would be nice for the mainland parties to be succesful there.

Maybe, but that's just a pipedream really (and Nationalists wouldn't vote for the British parties). Would would be nice would be for a rebirth of the NILP. Also a pipedream, I guess

DUP? Labour? I really don't see it (but I'm only somewhat familiar with NI politics).

The DUP's core electorate (both in urban and rural areas) is largely working class. And the same for Sinn Fein, obviously (and the party that Sinn Fein supporters in London vote for is not exactly a secret...).

On the other hand, the SDLP essentially is Labour.

Have you heard one of the more imaginative sendups of the SDLP's acronym? Schoolteachers, Doctor's and Lawyers Party. It's only a slight exaggeration to say that outside Derry (where it still has a working class vote) it's become (despite the name) the party of middle class Catholics and little else. The party is now close to death in working class districts in Belfast where it was once very strong. Increasingly the SDLP looks more FF-FG than anything found on the mainland (still has a "red" wing though).

[Јas]

Personally it would be nice for the mainland parties to be succesful there.

Indeed the *cough* 'mainland' parties are considering their options here... I think I've already highlighted that Fianna Fáil are on likely to start competing in local and Assembly elections in the coming years; the Greens are already bound together North & South; Sinn Féin, of course, contests elections in most constituencies on the 'mainland' at this stage...
We'll just have to wait and see on the future of the SDLP before we know whether Fine Gael and Labour decide to dip their toes in the water too!

[Vasall des Midas]

I've long supported a United Kingdom of Great Ireland and Northern Britain, to encompass all parts of the British Isles except the Southeast of England.

[Verily]

I've long supported a United Kingdom of Great Ireland and Northern Britain, to encompass all parts of the British Isles except the Southeast of England.

Will the Southeast then become a part of France?

[Vasall des Midas]

I've long supported a United Kingdom of Great Ireland and Northern Britain, to encompass all parts of the British Isles except the Southeast of England.

Will the Southeast then become a part of France?

No, it will become an independent country with weird but endearing politics that will also attempt to revive Anglo-Saxon as a second official language.

[Χahar]

I like that.

[Verily]

I've long supported a United Kingdom of Great Ireland and Northern Britain, to encompass all parts of the British Isles except the Southeast of England.

Will the Southeast then become a part of France?

No, it will become an independent country with weird but endearing politics that will also attempt to revive Anglo-Saxon as a second official language.

Then they need a civil war. It's not a proper country until it's had a civil war.

[Јas]

It seems the division between the DUP and SF regarding the devolution of Justice & Policing powers has been sorted out and so should create a new portfolio in the Executive (which still isn't meeting) in the near future.

The plan is for a single department headed by a sole minister elected on a cross-community vote in the Assembly - which would seem to indicate they viewed the election of an Alliance Party member as the preferable outcome (under the D'Hondt system they use to divvy up ministries, the SDLP would have been next in line). However the Alliance don't seem to want to touch it (prefering to remain the 'opposition' within the Assembly) and the UUP have also ruled themselves out and strongly criticised the plan. (Both SF and DUP have ruled themselves out as part of the negotiations.)

The plan now will go before the Executive's scrutiny committee for consideration.


Not long after Iris Robinson's remarks on homosexuality, Mervyn Storey MLA (DUP-North Antrim) and Chairman of the Assembly's Education Committee (and member of Paisley's Free Presbyterian Church), has come out in favour of creationism to be put on the curriculum (and ideally for evolution to be dropped altogether).

"This is not about removing anything from the classroom – although that would probably be the ideal for me – but this is about us having equality of access to other views as to how the world came into existence and that I think is a very, very important issue for many parents in Northern Ireland."

- The Irish Times
- The News Letter

[Јas]

The NI Executive will meet for the first time in 5 months tomorrow following the apparant final end to the standoff of the DUP and SF over the devolution of Justice issues. The minister won't be appointed under the d'Hondt system by which other ministries are divvied up, but instead will have to be approved by a majority vote of both Nationalists and Unionists in the Assembly. - BBC

Also, John Larkin QC seems to have been agreed upon as Attorney General. Larkin is a Catholic lawyer who has been a legal advisor to the DUP for some time. - Irish Times

[Јas]

Ulster Unionists and Conservatives agree electoral pact

"The deal will initially see the parties run on a joint ticket in Westminster and European elections in Northern Ireland, though it is yet to be decided whether the partnership will extend to Assembly and local council polls." -- Irish Times

[Sibboleth]

Some mistake surely;

Mr Cameron overturned past Conservative rhetoric to insist he had a selfish and strategic interest in Northern Ireland.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7768650.stm

[Јas]

Odd certainly.

Anyway, it seems clear that the only voice of the Ulster Unionists of any real relevance to Mr Cameron isn't sold on him yet.

Lady Hermon has a voting record which clearly indicates she's happy with Labour. The Belfast Telegraph report rumours that she could leave the party on this issue.

I don't see what David Cameron and the Conservatives get out of this and don't see what Reg Empey and the UUP get out of it.

[London Man]

Report on handing legacy of troubles sparks outrage.

[Јas]

Sammy Wilson (DUP-Antrim East), the Minister for the Environment in the NI Assembly has been courting controversy. Wilson doesn't accept the view that man-made factors are a significant contributor to climate change. He is preventing the broadcasting of TV advertisments, produced by the British Government, which promote the reduction of CO₂ emissions. This is an example of the "insidious propoganda campaign".

Wilson's position is at odds with all the political parties in the Assembly, the official position of the Executive and the DUP manifesto. The Green Party have called for his resignation, but there's no sign that he will resign or be resigned yet.

[Јas]

Sylvia Hermon will not be 'standing under the Conservative banner' - Irish Times
Empey 'dismayed' - BBC

Which seems to me to register the whole UUP-Tory alliance moot - simply because not only is she the only UUP MP, she's the only likely MP they'll have next time as well.

[Јas]

Relatives of the Omagh bomb victims today won a landmark civil action against four men they blamed for the attack in which 29 people died.

Former Real IRA leader Michael McKevitt and three other men — Liam Campbell, Colm Murphy and Seamus Daly — were found to be responsible for the bombing by a judge in a landmark civil case brought by victims’ families at Belfast High Court.

The Real IRA was also found liable for the attack in today’s ruling.

The relatives launched the action at the High Court in Belfast after the failure of the police to secure a criminal conviction over the 1998 Real IRA bombing in the Co Tyrone town.

They sued five men and the Real IRA as an organisation for up to £14 million sterling in a case which made legal history when it sat to hear evidence in both Belfast and Dublin. The case opened in April last year and completed hearing evidence in March.

Mr Justice Morgan — set to be Northern Ireland’s next Lord Chief Justice — took three months to sift through the evidence and produce his judgment that the case was proved against the four men, none of whom attended the hearings.

McKevitt is a founding member of the Real IRA who is in prison in the Republic. Co Louth farmer Campbell is in custody in Northern Ireland facing an attempt to extradite him to Lithuania to face arms smuggling charges.

Murphy, also from Louth, was found guilty in Dublin’s Special Criminal Court of conspiring to cause the Omagh bomb but his conviction was later quashed. A fifth man accused by the relatives, Seamus McKenna, was cleared today.

The only man to face criminal charges over the Omagh killings, Sean Hoey (38) from Jonesborough, South Armagh, was acquitted in December 2007.

- The Irish Times
- BBC

[So the Heroes Fall]

Why the hell are those guys not in jail and how can you sue an illegal organization?

[Јas]

Why the hell are those guys not in jail?

McKevitt is in jail.
The case against Murphy was bungled but a re-trial is possible.

And, of course, crucially, a criminal case must be proven beyond reasonable doubt, a civil case need only be proven on the balance of probabilities.

how can you sue an illegal organization?

Why can't you?

[Јas]

First Minister Peter Robinson has reshuffled his DUP Executive team.

Finance & Personnel: Sammy Wilson (E Antrim) replaces Nigel Dodds (N Belfast)
Environment: Edwin Poots (Lagan Valley) replaces Sammy Wilson
Culture, Arts and Leisure: Nelson McCausland (N Belfast) replaces Gregory Campbell (E Derry)

Junior Minister at the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister: Robin Newton (E Belfast) replaces Jeffrey Donaldson (Lagan Valley)

The changes are apparantly part of Robinson's effort to end 'double-jobbing' -  removing Ministries from persons who are also MPs. Notably though Sammy Wilson MP not only keeps his Ministerial role, but is promoted. Wilson is also on Belfast City Council. Evidently his strong preference for man-made climate change denial when Minister for the Environment impressed Robinson enough to put him in Finance.

[Јas]

Loyalists decommission arms
- Irish Times
- BBC

[Јas]

Mark Durkan has announced he is to step down as SDLP leader following the next Westminster election. He will seek re-election as MP for Foyle, but does not subsequently intend to seek re-election to the Assembly.
- SDLP Press Release

Durkan wasn't a brilliant leader, and he couldn't hope to really fill the void created by Hume's departure, but it's difficult to see what better options the party has. Despite the SDLP's struggling electoral efforts in recent years, there didn't appear to be any particular questions over Durkan's leadership from the party - very possibly because of the lack of good alternatives.

Very uncertain who's most likely to take over now. The two names being mentioned early are Alistair McDonnell (Deputy Leader, MP for the very marginal Belfast South and MLA for same) and Margaret Richie (MLA for South Down and the SDLP's only Minister in the Northern Executive).

[Јas]

As the Tories and UUP cement their new deal, the lone UUP MP wants nothing to do with it.
- Irish Times